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The REAL question about lube...in the Aneros world
  • Virg
    Posts: 154
    I have asked and searched about the use and type of lubes probably more than anything else on this forum, as well as the Web. Even more than how to get to the Holy Super-O!

    Unfortunately, I think that the REAL issue is being missed.

    I think what it comes down to is that the for the ususal uses for these lubes, they are safe, work well, and lead to a lot of fun, but, does that apply to use in the rectum and for the time frames, amounts, and frequency that represent Aneros users.

    The rectum absorbs fluids at many times (3x to 8x, depending on who you read) faster than fluids taken orally. And, it goes directly into the bloodstream.

    All may be fine but what about over time.

    Do we all have minule particles of goo - whatever you use - collecting in tiny areas of our blood vessels? What about our kidneys? They are the bodies filters and they can fail. I drink lots of water after a session. There are many a dead alcoholic and alcohol is a liquid...not as thick as almost all personal lubes...

    Given the posts, this process goes on for months for many, stretching into year(s) and months for some, unfortnately, before reaching SHAZZAM! Then, for the lucky ones, I suspect a much higher rate of usage once they have found the Super-O...at least, that is my plan!

    Frankly, I have questions and concerns on all the lubes discussed...

    Vaseline (petro jelly): Works great. Stays around. Lots of opinions about internal use being fine to bad.

    Silicone-based: Long lasting but clean-up is a pain. Are the suppliers selling us "food grade" silicone, like what is used in restaurants, or the stuff in the spray can found in a auto shop? How much is too much? And, it is expensive.

    Water-based: It may break down in water but what about the chemical components? Absorbed? Expelled? Collecting in the brain?

    Cooking oils, butter: Not good for the arteries.

    Olive oil: It is great as a food and much better than almost all the usual edibile oils for our bodies but can you use too much. Remember, cooking oils are ingested and digested. The Aneros path goes into the bloodstream.

    Vitamin E oil: What is the vitamin E suspended in?

    Corn starch: Shocker, huh? Yeah, I found a researcher that was studying the connection between benezine in personal lubes and the spread of HIV/AIDS. He had a recipe for using corn starch as all natural personal lube. Have tried it but not with the Aneros...

    Gels - KY, Surgilube, Wet, etc.: If it is a gel, does that mean it has bigger "particles"...? Harder to get rid of? Bigger "boulders" in the bloodstream?

    These may seem like very lame questions and this horse may have been beat enough, and you are probably right.

    I just wish I could find hard factual evidence to these specific questions. Not opinions, beliefs, "common knowledge" but unbiased medical facts.

    The Aneros process is a very different world than almost all other sexual exploration on four levels, as I see it...

    1. It requires lube, and a fair amount of it from the context of being absorbed (partially or totally) into the bloodstream.

    2. The addictive nature of the "journey" happens quite regularly - more than once a day, daily, one or two days apart, and so on - and will probably go on for years for most of us.

    3. A session can be as short as 20-30 minutes to hours...giving the rectum time to absorb the lube(s) while it is being held inside.

    4. Movement of the Aneros may even promote absorbtion of the lube by the rectum.

    This items, considered together, are a combination that represents a fairly unique process, that may, or may not, have potenially adverse effects.

    I would just like to be able to find factual data on the use of specific types of lubes, when used in various amounts, in the rectum, and how it relates to frequency of use, over a long period of time.

    Yeah. Yeah. I know. Take a chill pill, lube up, insert, and relax...

    Any medical doctors out there that would like to comment...?

    Finally, my new mantra...

    "Why do drugs, when you have Aneros"?
  • Edit
    Posts: 0
    I have been checking into the lube issue as well for a few weeks. This is a really tough issue.

    First Silicone- Recently I picked up some silicone lube and was interested in trying it, but I wanted to research it first. After reading an exhaustive amount of web safety info, I came to the conclusion no way would I use silicone internally for any period of time. What I found in medical reports was that silicone is known to migrate in the body; in cases where is injected into the lips it migrated to the chin! It also causes local water filled pus sacks, where the body tries to isolates the silicone. It also causes liver and I think kidney damage.

    Second Water base- That what I've been using and started my concerns, after an old forum posting on the benzenes used lubes. I researched the safety of theses as well. The water base lubes have a much lower amount of benzenes then the petroleum base. However, I still was not convinced the normal water base lube are 100% safe long term, with the repeated and extended exposure. I would advise a water base lube without any benzene. So far I've found Probe thick and rich which has no benzenes and does appear to be safer, but it contains veg glycerin. I know the glycerin in the ID lube gives me the urge to puge, unless I mix it down with K-Y ULTRA gel 50/50. I still plan on checking other water lube option out there.

    Oil or Petroleum - From all I have ever read, they say these would trap bateria and allow them to multiply. I wonder if low oxidated and cold pressed oils might be OK, say extra virgin olive oil, almond oil, grapseed oil, etc. Maybe posting in a health forum site might answer this.

    Xanthan Gum (Home Brew Lube) - I found this in a forum, mixing Xanthan Gum & Water. Use 4 0z warm distilled water and about 2/3 teaspoon Xanthan Gum.
    Shake till homogenous. Add water or Gum to get the viscosity of your
    choice. I have not used or checked on this at all.

    Well that what I know so-far, I hope it helps the cause.
  • Virg
    Posts: 154
    Thank you, Steam239! I may be a bit intense on this topic but I have only one body and would like to take care of it, as I am sure we all do.

    I really appreciate your sharing your "research" and would like to suggest that you post a thread, with references and links, about silicone lubes, in as much detail as you feel is relevant. We have to try to get away from opinions and get to the facts.

    I know there are Aneros users that like silicone a lot. Your info may be helpful...

    I am going to devote more time and energy to this. We should be able to find definitive FACTUAL conclusions on lubes as they would apply to the Aneros process.

    Quite frankly, I feel Highland Health is being very irresponsible by not researching and providing this information, with the sale of their products. To use their product, you HAVE to use lube...

    For the prices charged, is it too much to ask to have this issue FACTUALLY answered?

    They use "Health" in their name...isn't this a fair health question for their clients...?
  • Pan
    Posts: 249
    Hi Virg,

    I know you're looking for some useful research on lubricants and I'm afraid I don't really have any. But I do have some thoughts to offer:

    1. While I can see the wisdom in seeking out the most beneficial (or least harmful) lubricant, I can't help but think that if KY (or similar well-known and widely used brands) was truly dangerous or likely to inflict harm with regular use, it would have become obvious by now, simply by way of the vast amount of people who have been using it regularly for anal sex play for the past several decades.

    I mean, with all the potential hazards that are simply a part of modern living (air pollution, unsafe drivers, food, drugs, natural disasters, war, terrorism, etc) I have to say that lube isn't very high on my list when I think of possible dangers to watch out for.

    To be honest, if I had the choice between eating a Big Mac or using KY once a week, consecutively for ten years. I would choose the KY without a second thought. Come to think of it, I *did* make that choice and things seem to be going quite well so far. I'm still warey of Big Macs though...

    2. I disagree with your statement that HIH is being "irresponsible." I don't think it's reasonable to expect High Island to perform extensive research on lubricants simply because their product requires the use of one. By that rationale, every insertable sex toy company on the market should be doing the same. Do you know of any who do? 'Cuz I certainly don't.

    It seems to me that if anyone should be providing data on the health effects of lubricants, it's the companies that manufacture lubricants, not the ones that manufacture devices (everything from vibrators and enemas to rectal thermometers?!) which require the use of lubricants.

    High Island's focus seems to be on prostate health and providing a way to safely and effectively self-massage the prostate. I think they have delivered admirably on that level with the Aneros.

    3. Most sex toys (and even lubricants) on the market are sold with a stamp "for novelty use only" which allows them to get away with making poorly designed devices that may be potentially hazardous for the body from a design point of view, and worse yet, are frequently manufactured using toxic materials not approved by the FDA.

    4. The Aneros was designed by a doctor, specifically for the prostate, with the intention of being a safe and effective medical device. Lucky for us, it just happens to work as an amazing sex toy. It's made from safe materials approved by the FDA, and unlike most toys on the market, a great deal of genuine medical thought went into it's design and application, the purpose of which is to help maintain or even enhance the health and safety of the user.

    Now, I can understand your frustration regarding the lack of solid factual data on the long-term use of lubricants. But when there are so many companies out there recklessly producing unsafe devices and looking to make a quick buck regardless of who it hurts, why point a finger at one of the only companies that actually makes the health and safety of their customers their first consideration?

    Walk into any adult toy shop and see how many toys you can find that don't have "for novelty purposes only" stamped on them. Or that say they are made from FDA approved materials. Companies like HIH, and products like the Aneros, are truly rare in this market.

    Personally, I don't think they have anything more to prove. And asking them to solve the Great Lube Dilema is a bit much in my opinion. Maybe that's something Masters & Johnson should be working on...

    Pan :-)
  • darwindarwin
    Posts: 1,196
    for you guys who are looking into this, thanks very much.

    here is a question for you: with respect to the water based lubes, how does the rectum compare to the vagina in the pathway to the blood system? both have mucus membranes. i would say that the test of time has been applied for vaginal use of the water based lubes.

    based on B Mayfield's suggestion, i have been using Maximus, which is a really nice water based lube.

    here are the ingredients:

    Highly purified water, propylene glycol, cellulose polymer, disodium edta, phenoxyethanol, methyl paraben, propyl paraben, butyl paraben, and ethyl paraben.

    i have also been using grapeseed oil. as far as oil based lubes trapping bacteria, i guess i would want to know what the consequences of this are. presumably some kind of infection which would either makes itself known or be a non-issue.

    i agree that since HIH is a health product provider (see http://www.highisland.com) and that the inventor is a urologist, they are well positioned to do the research and provide the information.

    i don't agree that we should compare HIH with any other sex toy providers. we are all here because this product is different and is based on principles of health and well-being and i think it is fair to hold HIH to a significantly higher standard.

    that said, i also don't think they are negligent if they don't provide the info. they would be if use of the product obviously led to demonstrable health problems. but, as pan said, we live in an artificial world where low level hazards are endemic.

    darwin

  • B MayfieldB Mayfield
    Posts: 2,077
    (this post was edited 2007-03-03 17:57:35)


    Personally, I've never thought that there was a cause for concern in using glycerine based (water based lubes). Glycerine has been used for decades in foods, candies cosmetics and medical lubricants. Perhaps this quote from the "Biochemisty of Nutrition" by Jerry Wilson may be helpful. Glycerin is a by-product of fat metabolism. It can also be ingested as an ingredient in some foods. Glycerin is metabolized much like carbohydrates, except that there is no corresponding increase in either insulin levels or blood glucose.

    The main problem with these products as I see it, is that they can cause a laxative effect with some people (fortunately not in my case).

    With respect to the propylene glycol, it too has a multitude of uses many of which involve human consumption; in medicines food and cosmetics. In the body, propylene glycol metabolizes into lactic acid. Lactic acid occurs naturally in muscles, specifically during exercise.

    The important thing here is that both glycerine and propylene glycol have a long history of human consumption, and that they're both broken down in the body into fairly benign substances.

    Silicone is another matter, and has been the object of controversy for a number of years. Since I don't use it...I will leave it for others to ponder. In the past when I did try it, it left me feeling like I had sprayed a bottle of Camp Dry (water repellent) up my rear,,,,making clean-up ridiculously complicated. Not for me!

    On the subject of absorption, since we're talking about the lowest end of the digestive tract, absorption is indeed a factor....particularly when it comes to the colon. The primary purpose of the colon in the digestive process IS water recovery. The rectum is in essence a "collecting pouch" or a last stop before the old heave ho. Although most absorption takes place in the colon, the rectum can play a role as well. Furthermore, it is possible for backward movement from the rectum to the colon to occur in order to facilitate further water recovery. In this way I think it's wise to be cautious about what one uses for anal lubrication. It's my opinion that these two substances are farily safe. If anyone has any evidence to the contrary, I would certainly be interested in looking at it.

    With respect to the vagina, despite some of the urban legends out there about women inserting something... and it having a systemic effect (namely alcohol), the rectum and colon have a far greater capacity for this.

    BF Mayfield
  • Edit
    Posts: 0
    I appreciate the comments from everyone. I should have all the lube info I checked at my finger tips, however this has been an ongoing pursuit. Recently I did research silicon lube (2/18), but it took me a while to dig back up some of the web paged I used as references. My goal then was to check on the safety of silicone lube before going ahead and trying it with the Aneros.

    The following link gives a good overall brake down of lube types and considerations. Notice the safety of silicon stated in a positive way.

    http://safersextalk.s3athome.com/index2.asp?category=9ACDE8D459834CE7AA90FB2ADC8BB655


    Then more directly to the silicon links
    http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9906E1DD1E38F931A15752C0A964948260

    www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,974675,00.html

    http://www.yestheyrefake.net/liquid_silicone_risks.htm

    http://www.tsroadmap.com/physical/silicone/index.html
    on that page I clicked on Kubota J, Fujino T, Sugymoto C, Abe T : Long term complications caused by injected silicone gel and paraffin oil. Keio J Med 1984; 33 : 127-136.

    This is a great general toxic site I found
    http://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov/ type in silicone, dimethicone, etc.

    Please note, I read alot more info, but going from site to site over various time period got the sources buried. Anyway hope these help.
  • Edit
    Posts: 0
    As for the water based vs. silicone lubes, I cannot really provide any facts about long-term safety, but maybe what I do is an idea:
    I use I-D water-based lube in a syringe to insert it into the rectum. Then I apply some Pjur silicone-based lube onto the Aneros itself. It doesn't make the clean-up more difficult, but I have the impression that I get the best of both worlds that way - easy cleanup and no problem with the Aneros getting dry at all.
    Plus, I think that if in doubt, water-based lube will be safer to use long-term.
  • Edit
    Posts: 0
    If a condom is used over the Aneros, then only minimal lube is needed for insertion. Put a water-based lube inside the condom and the Aneros will slide blissfully inside the condom. Oil-based lubes seem to react with the latex and make it sticky, which poses a bigger health threat than the lubricant alone. Maybe silicone would be OK inside the condom, haven't tried it.

    Now the question remains, is latex safe in one's rear end on a daily basis? Probably it is, as long as it is pure natural latex and not a synthesised variety. More research ...
  • Edit
    Posts: 0
    Hey 7up,

    Your method of putting lube in a condom sounds interesting, thanks for the idea. I have a few questions on this process. Does the unit slide around and massage the prostate as good as with the normal lubing process? Do you use an unlubed condom;what keeps it stay in position during an session? What exact water lube do you use and what keeps the lube from leaking out the condom? Does this work only if you lay on you stomach? It would seem possible the condom might get worked inside; do you tie the end of the condom to the aneros unit?

    Thanks,
  • Edit
    Posts: 0
    Hello Steam239,

    I find that the massager slides much better in the condom than without it, but then again I've always used lube rather sparingly. Yes, the lube does tend to seep out, but without the condom the lube went the other way! An unlubed condom is best. After applying the condom, I twist it at the base which helps to keep the lube in. Even though the massager is relatively small, I use an extra large condom so there is plenty of rubber to spare at the base, so it does not work its way inside. I use the ID Glide provided on this website.

    I prefer to lie on my side rather than stomach, but I would lie flat on my back, the optimum position for enjoying oneself, if it were not for the protruding handle. For this reason I'm contemplating the new Progasm which replaces the handle with the K-tab, apart from the fact that the Progasm looks truly breathtaking, and the mere thought of stimulating my K-spot sends pleasure waves throughout my body. I'm looking forward to more feedback from Progasm users before I buy. Condoms may work even better with the larger Progasm.
  • Virg
    Posts: 154
    Thanks 7up!

    Great stuff and an unique approach! Why don't you start a thread on your approach rather then it being buried here? That way a LOT more "explorers" would be exposed to your method...
  • saugatuck
    Posts: 20
    I have heard that Preparation H cream or ointment can be used as a natural and safe Lube. I have used it and found great results. It really is just fish oil so it should not harm you in any way. Just a thought. Good Luck!
  • B MayfieldB Mayfield
    Posts: 2,077

    Originally Posted By: saugatuck
    I have heard that Preparation H cream or ointment can be used as a natural and safe Lube. I have used it and found great results. It really is just fish oil so it should not harm you in any way. Just a thought. Good Luck!


    I would say that you heard wrong....and frankly I'd think again if I were you.

    First, if you take time to read the ingredients, Preparation H contains a lot of other things than fish oil of which there is only 3% by volume. What makes up the other 97%? Mineral Oil, 14%, Petrolatum, 71.9% (petroleum jelly) AND Phenylephrine HCI (0.25%) (vasoconstrictor/decongestant). And that's only the ACTIVE ingredients! The product comes with a list of contraindications for individuals with: heart disease, high blood pressure, thryroid disease, diabetes AND BPH (enlargement of the prostate). The point is that it contains a drug (one commonly seen in cold and allergy medication) and it's not something that I would go casually inserting in my rectum as a personal lubricant.

    With respect to Preparation H Cream it gets even better!. In addition to the other ingredients this product also contains Pramoxine HCL a topical anesthetic. Consider for yourself, what is the point of using something that will decrease sensation of your anus, rectum and prostate? Futhermore, the product comes with a stern warning that it is for external use only. The documentation that it's packaged with goes even further, warning that it should never be introduced rectally, by means of an applicator or finger etc.

    There are several other formulations of Preparation H as well,... Jel and Anti-Itch Cream all of these also come with the warnings about using it internally.

    If none of this reaches you.....take a look at the price!

    Product................... Price ............Quantity

    Preparation H ..........$10.99 ..........1.8 oz. .........$6.11/oz.

    KY Jelly..................... $ 5.29 ...........4.0 oz. .....$1.32/oz.




    There are just too many safe and cheap alternatives out there, than to consider using Prep H

    Enough said...


    BF Mayfield
  • Lincoln
    Posts: 26
    Thank you BF and the others in this thread who have raised awareness about a potentially serious health issue.

    Can we be too safe where our bodies are concerned?

    Lincoln
  • Virg
    Posts: 154
    I agree! Thanks BF for the heads up on the hazards of the Preparation H suggestion as a safe anal lube.

    When I first read the suggestion, I was a little embarrassed for not thinking of it sooner. It has been around a long time...must be safe, ya would think. It made perfect sense.

    We know better now...

    This is a very good example of what led me to start this thread...we should try to get more factual information and not accept the use of COMMONLY USED lubes as totally SAFE for use in the Aneros PROCESS. Those lubes were not made to be hanging out in one's rectum for hours and passed to the bloodstream...

    On first look, who would not assume that Prep. H would be OK? I did. Thanks to BF's knowledge, and his willingness to always share his knowledge and insights, we all know better now.

    As I have followed the thread, I am surprised that no medical types have not chimed in with their knowledge and insights on this issue. We (Aneros junkies) all must be a group of crazed sexual preverts and the medical professionals know better than to go banging on one's prostrate?! I was hoping we would get lucky...

    For myself, I am going to keep digging on this topic...the data has to be out there...

    Thank everyone for the input.

    "Why do drugs, when you have Anereos"?
  • Pan
    Posts: 249
    Ok, gotta raise my hand on this one.

    Am I the only one that thinks it's just plain crazy to assume Preparation H would make a good anal lubricant? Let's see now, for decades we've all seen TV commercials advertising it as a HEMORRHOID cream, and of course, it's always sold in stores next to other HEMORRHOID TREATMENTS. Whatever could this stuff be meant for? Hmm, I wonder...

    I believe that, on first glance (assuming that glance includes the label), almost anyone would assume Preparation H *IS NOT OK* to use as a lubricant. Has anyone here ever glanced at a Preparation H label? If not, please take a quick look:

    http://www.preparationh.com/hemorrhoid_medications/ointment/ointment_package_label.asp

    Now tell me. How could anyone in their right mind read this label, however briefly, and then assume Preparation H was designed to be used for anything other than HEMORROIDS?!

    As for "banging on one's prostate," the whole point of the Aneros is to provide a way to safely stimulate and massage the prostate WITHOUT "banging" it. So far, it seems to be working quite well. After all, this forum has been around for a LONG TIME and I have yet to read of any genuine medical problems caused by the device, here or anywhere else on the Net.

    Virg, I appreciate your efforts to find the safest lubricant options for use with the Aneros. It's information we all can benefit from. But frankly, I believe your concerns are somewhat...over-zealous.

    I don't know about you, but I've been using the Aneros regularly for over 8 years now, with KY, and haven't experienced any discomfort or health problems. Is that a guarantee of absolute safety? Of course not. But I think it suggests that if either of them posed a serious risk to my health something would probably have happened by now, don't you? And if not to me, what about all the other long-term lubricant and Aneros users here? They don't seem to be experiencing any problems either. So where's the fire?

    You're wondering why medical professionals aren't jumping in to contribute to this discussion. I think it's because there doesn't appear to be much to discuss. People have been using lubricants like KY for decades. Prostate massage has been around for centuries. If there was a serious condition caused by frequent use of either one, surely it would have been detected by now. I think the fact that no wide-spread serious health problems have been detected in association with either the substances or the activity is precisely why medical experts aren't particularly concerned. And if they're not, why should you be?

    /Rant

  • TripperTripper
    Posts: 250
    Hey,

    Discussion and a few zealots is probably a good thing. Who knows? This thread may have helped someone stop using preparation H incorrectly. And, I can't help remembering how long it took to recognize red dye #2 or tobacco as harmful. I think it took half a dozen zealots out there to make that happen over many many years.

    That's not to say there is anything harmful about the lubricants we are all using. I don't know. I cross my fingers and back a truck up to Walmart each month for my allotment of Equate (KY Jelly equivalent).

    Great forum and there are always a number of valuable exchanges taking place.

    Tripper
  • Pan
    Posts: 249
    LOL!

    Well said Trip.

    I guess my point is this:

    If back before they "proved" tobacco was bad for you, there was a forum like this, with hundreds of pack-a-day smokers posting their experiences over ten years, chances are some of them would have started mentioning little things like, oh let's say coughing or TUMORS, don't ya think?

    ;-)

    All I'm saying is, if this type of activity is dangerous, statistically there should have been some common ailment(s) reported around here by now, like the anal/prostate equivalent of a "smoker's cough." And if there is one, but it just takes 30 years to show up, then by golly I think I'll take that risk. Heck, I'll even call it a fair trade!

    No one ever said life was safe. And when I think of all the possible ways to harm oneself (smoking, drinking, poor diet, American Idol, etc) in our society, I'll gladly accept Death By Super-O's.

    //Rant

    P.S. I recommend Target brand "Lubricating Jelly." It's KY for 40% less!
  • (this post was edited 2007-03-15 12:51:05)

    (this post was edited 2007-03-15 12:50:41)

    Interesting site here (no affiliation on my part):

    http://www.yesyesyes.org/

    I've used coconut oil (raw) before and that sped me along the way to a few hours of Super Os. I don't know if that'd have any adverse effects? I know it's a 'bad' fat if eaten in excess.

    I agree that the silicon lubes aren't good. They work brilliantly, but I feel slightly 'poisoned' after using them. Plus they get everything slippy from light switches, doorhandles, etc, and is a bugger to get rid of.



  • Edit
    Posts: 0
    Has anyone mentioned Grape Seed Oil? Not sure about the lube properties, but it's a healthy and ingestible oil. Antioxidants, vitamins, lowers bad cholesterol.
  • daddeo
    Posts: 41
    Has anyone else tried Boy Butter with their Aneros?
    It's primary target is for the other side -- jerking off.
    But the thickness of the Boy Butter is much nicer than Astroglide for my Aneros sessions.
  • darwindarwin
    Posts: 1,196

    Originally Posted By: lubeitup
    Has anyone mentioned Grape Seed Oil? Not sure about the lube properties, but it's a healthy and ingestible oil. Antioxidants, vitamins, lowers bad cholesterol.




    yes, i have been using grapeseed oil (from Whole Foods).

    but, i have since discovered that it ruins the syringe (all oil based lubes do).

    so i'm going back to the excellent water based lube Maximus and see how it holds up to protracted sessions.
  • Virg
    Posts: 154
    I have found an very nice alternative to petroleum jelly (vaseline).

    It is called "Alba Un-petroleum, Multi-Purpose Jelly". I found it at Whole Foods but is probably available through someone on the web.

    It states that it is, "Made without petrolatum, paraffin, mineral oil, artificial fragrances or parabens. Hypo-allergenic. No animal testing."

    "Ingredients: Ricinus Communis (castor) seed oil, cocos nucifera (coconut) oil, beeswax, hydrogenated castor oil, tocopheryl acetate anf tocopheral (Vitamin E)".

    Anyone see any ingredient(s) listed that should be a concern?

    Their website is www.AlbaBotanica.com.

    At this point, I think is great stuff but I will admit that part of that feeling is knowing it has not petroleum. It has a thick consistency but not as thick as petroleum jelly, which I think is good. It reminds me of thick honey...

    I use it as a base coat for the Aneros. Typically, I warm up the Aneros by letting sit in a bowl of hot water, then take it out, dry it off, and apply the base coat. This product goes on easy, not in chunks like petroleum jelly.

    Hope this helps...

    "Why do drugs, when you have Aneros"?
  • B MayfieldB Mayfield
    Posts: 2,077
    (this post was edited 2007-03-25 20:06:54)

    Virg,

    I do see two ingredients that are of some concern, namely Castor Seed Oil and Castor Oil. These oils have been used for centuries as a laxatives. I seemed to recall when I was kid, one of the popular brand names was Fletcher's Castoria. I'm very familiar with the Alba products, and even have some of their hand lotion right now. While I trust that this Multi-Purpose Jelly product is likely safe for external use, I'm not sure if this is something that I would be using casually as a personal lubricant, particularly for anal or rectal play. Again, keep in mind that this product was formulated for external application.

    BF Mayfield


    P.S. Please disregard previous post re: Ricin. Cold pressed castor oil as is used for human consumption does not contain it. The mechanism of the laxative action of castor oil is preventing reabsorption of water in the colon.
  • Virg
    Posts: 154
    Thanks, Brian!

    Just another example of how what appears on the surface SHOULD be OK, is not. Or, at least, needs a closer look...

    Thanks again...
  • Virg
    Posts: 154
    I wanted to provide a link - http://www.virusmyth.net/aids/data/sblubejob.htm - to an article that really got me thinking about anal lubrication, in general, and even more so, in regards to using the Aneros, which led to my posting this thread way back when...

    One could easily overlook this article at first glance...HIV, Benzene...does not really get one's attention when searching for info..."HIV takes two people"..."What's benzene"... Once you start reading the text, it is clear that it is about benzene in commercial lubes and the spread of HIV...

    Further down in the text there is a lot of info on water-based lubes...chemicals, percentages, etc.

    The author does offer the suggestion of using "Probe" as a good natural/organic lube and no other commercially available lubes...probably, because in 1997, there were not much to choose from for natural/organic...

    This was written in 1997, and I tried to locate the author for a possible update, but, unfortunately, he died of a stroke in 2001.

    He does offer a home-made lube...corn starch...! Did that get your attention? Think of the money you would save!? Before running to the kitchen to steal the wife's little yellow box that usually comes out once a year to make gravy...

    I have made his recipe and it is quite interesting.

    You can adjust the thickness depending on the ratio of corn starch to water you use, as well as how much heat you apply to the mixture. Given the full effect of it's thickening occurs at the boiling point, my sense of it that if you like the thickness before you reach 212 degrees, it is more apt to go "runny" much easier if you stop there than if you let it get to boiling, then let it cool down before use...but, this way, your only way to adjust the thickness is to adjust the corn starch to water ratio at the BEGINNING of the process...

    This can be a really great lube externally with NO CHEMICALS! It can get a little messy depending on your tastes during the trial and error period but you can make gallons of it for pennies! And, you can control it thickness!

    I have not used it internally yet... The mixture will turn to more and more of a gel, over time. While that may impede it's ability to enter the blood stream through the rectum (a good thing), it certainly reduces it's ability to function as a lube (a bad thing). Given that one's sessions can get long...1, 2, 3+ hours...this is an issue.

    I still want to do some more research. Anyone wanna start a test group?!

    I hope the link is helpful and the lube suggestion interesting, if not humorous...

    "Why do drugs when you have Aneros"?
  • TripperTripper
    Posts: 250
    Ahhhh...all is right with the world. Virg is posting again.


    Tripper
  • pacnw
    Posts: 8
    Thanks to Virg and others posting on this topic.

    I've developed allergies and sensitivies to many things the last few yrs and still trying to sort it all out; so I've had to become quite the label reader as #1 allergin for me is soy, i.e. vita E added to just about anything comes from it. The parabens have also been a concern as my endocrine/adrenal system is compromised. Very much appreciate the link to the article on benzene.

    Generally speaking, I've found ForPlay Lube de Luxe to be the best lube for anal play, but have been looking to explore more with oils. Have used coconut externally in the past, but if it gets on bedding or towels, it can go rancid fairly quickly and be a bother to get out.

    Will have to try some of the other suggestions here. Jojoba oil is great externally, but didn't work so well for me internally the 1x I tried it. I'm still a newbie with Aneros and in trying to get everything working right. Didn't someone mention a test group? :lol:
  • Virg
    Posts: 154
    LOL! Trip, I did not know I was missed! I think my posts usually lean in the skeptical and questioning direction...not always totally positive... I decided to back off some...I did not want to be a "wet blanket". Plus, the quest for the Super-O was beginning to take up too much of my attention and time. As I have stated, "Why use drugs when you have Aneros". Incedious piece of plastic...! I am glad to hear about your sucesses! Good job!

    Pacnw: Glad to hear you found the article helpful! I just wish the author was still alive...I have lots of questions... Oh, well...more digging...

    I have not tried ForPlay deluxe but will get it a try.

    The natural oils would seem to be a good option, regardless of the mess, since they are "natural". My concern would be about the amount of oil absorbed into the bloodstream and it's effect... Does a dropper, or two, or three, really matter? Or, is it like pouring STP jelly into a car engine? It may flow fine in the one's arteries but what happens when its comes to the those tiny, tiny viens...?

    We are all warned about cooking with butter and trans fat, and so on. These all appear in our food in very small amounts AND go through the digestive process and they are still a problem. What is the impact of oils that we use as lube during an Aneros session and are absorbed directly into the bloodstream without the stomach acids and digestive processes to break this oils down!?

    And, if you ignore that, there is still the question of good vs. bad oils and which would be the best

    According to the author of the article I linked to, the rectum absords fluids into the bloodstream 8x faster than orally... Lubes, of various types, are thicker than water, so how much gets absorbed? Does the water get absorbed but the chemicals get left in the rectum? I doubt it. The big question, as I stated in my other thread, is what happens to those fluids if they are in the rectum (during Aeros use) for hours?

    The whole lube thing really concerns me. We all get too many chemicals in our systems indirectly to be adding more voluntarily, through the rectum which is extremely efficient at absorbing fluids. Again, too many unknowns...

    Lube is used from very short periods of time, compared to the time spent during a "session". I do not think that historical use of lubes that appears to be "safe" is validation that they are totally safe for use with the Aneros.

    Having said that, I have not found anything does not have negative elements...

    What makes this all very, very hard is that the Aneros is ssooooo addictive!

    As to your question about my humorous suggestion of a "test group" on the corn starch lube...

    Truth is...we are all, the test group...
  • pacnw
    Posts: 8
    Virg,

    (is that short for Virgo?) rib rib, I have a lot of Virgo in my astro chart, we tend to be the health conscious (or freaks) of the world. :D

    In doing a bit more research, I would say Probe does appear to be the safer of the commercial water-based lubes. I've not ever tried, but look to give it a whirl. K-Y never worked well for me and in researching it contains that darn benzoic acid.

    I thought you might find the following site of interest:
    http://www.cosmeticsdatabase.com/browse.php?category=lubricant/spermicide
    Their site was down over the weekend for maintenance, so I couldn't access earlier. (Probe gets high marks). This database is by no means comprehensive, but does give quite a bit of info.

    I want to dig into this research a bit more as well. I think the healthy oils would definitely be the best route. Coconut has good fats actually. Olive would be good.

    Propylene glycol by the way is used in antifreeze. What form are they using in lubricants? Cosmetics and lubricants are not regulated by the FDA. And from my own experience, I would be reluctant to use any soy or soy-based/mixed oil. Soy is not a health food and actually is a known thyroid and endocrine system disruptor. My 2 cents.
  • Virg
    Posts: 154
    Following suggestions by others, I have been looking into the use of oilive oil and coconut oil as safe internal lubes.

    There is a very large amount of info on the web about the benefits of both coconut and olive oil. For some, they are miracle substances!

    Again, back to the REAL issues for use in the Aneros world...

    The coconut and olive oil is ingested and processed in the stomach. It is broken down and absorbed.

    For us Aneros users, it is not broken down or metabolized. It is just taken into the bloosstream without being "processed". So, given that, can one trust the glowing testiminials apply to these oils for Aneros use? I do not know. It may be that either "path" to the blodstream may not matter. Then again, maybe the chemical reactions in the stomach are critical for these oils to be broken down to a "size"(?) that they can enter the bloodstream and be beneficial. Maybe, via the rectum, these oils are not beneifical and are "boulder" sized compared to their "size" when metabolized via the stomach.

    Unfortunately, there just is not any facts or research that I can find on these kind of questions

    Again, in the Aneros world, almost all assumptions do not apply, or, at least, need to be reconsidered.

    All that said, I feel better about using all-natural, organic fluids that the commercial "personal lubricants"...

    Just some things to consider and be aware of...