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Offtopic - Lucid Dreaming
  • BoPBoP
    Posts: 96
    I have been in to lucid dreaming for over year and a half and now begin to have some amassing results
    I am exploring sex and orgasms among other things but I must say it is absolutely stunning.

    I felt orgasms in a lucid dream I never thought possible and they just feel impossible for real world, dream world also bring many many factors and things you can experiment not only sexually but on any topic you want.

    I want to ask if someone here has experience with lucid dreams also and maybe get a topic going see what tricks people use for inducing lucids.

    Thanks.
  • BusterBuster
    Posts: 953
    Hi BoP,

    I had no idea what lucid dreaming was so I looked it up. Yes, I have had one in particular but it was not sexual in nature. It was shortly after my father passed away and one that I will never forget!

    I am intrigued with it and would love to hear how other people have experimented with it. It would be awesome to have them more regular and to have it be orgasmic.
  • artformartform
    Posts: 1,488
    Unintended duplicate of the one below... Funny messages about the server not something...
  • artformartform
    Posts: 1,488
    Hi BoP and Buster

    Great to add this area of experience as a topic now BoP! I second your description and enthusiasm for the potential of orgasmic energies and lucid dreaming.

    IMHO this can be a key element of the fullest experience of the potentials of the Aneros/orgasmic energies/ecstatic energies paths that we are exploring here. Many of us are also experiencing these links through KSMO at www.multiples.com and you can try the google site search there for posts on "lucid dreaming" (7 pages of listings on topic!) and its companion, hypnagogia. Here is the Wikipedia overview: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypnagogia

    Hypnagogia and the development of easy conscious access to it (one form of Lucid Dreaming in a sense) has been for me a prime form of communication with deeper levels of mind/body.

    I have referenced lucid dreaming, where I do voyage from time to time, in my blog: http://www.aneros.com/displayblog.php?id=3544 More will show up soon there as I am developing a post entitled Unpacking the Expanding Toolkit in my KSMO blog currently. If this conversation develops here, I will add references to it and its topics, and it will later be posted in a modified form here in my Aneros blog too.

    I have mentioned hypnagogia in several earlier threads here including: http://www.aneros.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1970&highlight=hypnagogia

    As you can see there, and on the others if you do a site search here, there are others experienced and curious. Sometime, perhaps this would be a good topic for a Chat here.

    Every night as I am ready to go to sleep, I image walking gently down a large staircase into the earth. Each step is a step gradually into different states or degrees of consciousness. When things turn into a bit of a free-wheeling circus I know (lucidly) that I am back in Hypnagogia, where I have found that many things are possible!

    Easily off to deep relaxed sleep in 30 second or so by taking one more step is a great one.

    Thinking briefly of a topic or issue you want to consider and propose solution, putting it over on the back burner (and leaving it back there!), then one more step and off to sleep in 30 seconds or so, AND then awaking refreshed in the morning with a comprehensive optimum answer! is another!!! I tried and perfected this almost 20 years ago when I was back at university for 18 months.

    Feeling strong connections for years with several surrealist artists I feel at home and comfortable in the hurly-burly chaos of hypnagogia. Just like scanning and picking posts of interest here, one quickly gets to be able to find images or clusters of interest or that trigger selections of feelings/topics/directions one might want to "open", "follow" or "pursue".

    When I am having Aneros and/or KSMO sessions, and in sessions with mrs. a like the one described in Beyond Words... in my blog here, the cosmic communion/union energy exchanges and switchings are travelling through hypnagogia and into highly energized lucid dreaming, in effect.

    Not too frequently and not yet at will, I can float into a lucid dream from a deeply relaxed awake state and maintain a conversation with mrs. a while being fully visually and partly aurally immersed in the dream and its landscapes or whatever environment, moving through it and interacting.

    Hope these fragments help and would love to continue this conversation with you both and others.

    all the best to all

    artform
  • BoPBoP
    Posts: 96
    Thanks for your responses.

    artform happy to hear you also practice lucid dreams. I was originally interested in them long long time a go but about year and a half back I decided to be stable about it and started recording dreams every morning and practicing some induction techniques describes in most book I read on the topic. I was not doing my hardest to get in to it but I was just thinking about some days and I kept journal with dreams constantly updated and still do. Then at one point I had a dream and woke up in it it lasted maybe 15seconds but I was completely aware looked at the environment touched it and I even said: "finally I am in a dream" I remember it so clearly as it is reality and although I did write it down not a single sensation faded about it and I feel I would never forget it. It was so real and I was fully awake as I am right this moment. So this experience made me push for lucid dreaming and I got few more and was able to change them and right now I am doing all the research I can. This is very interesting and is worth every effort.

    For those who never had this experience lucid dreams are dreams where you realize you are dreaming and world around you is dream world, it can feel, smell, taste much like this real world in essence it feel as real as when you are reading this. Look around ! What if you are dreaming! hehe this is hard to believe concept but when you try it you are likely to love it. It does need some work to get there.
  • marmot
    Posts: 80
    BoP,

    Your experiences with lucid dreaming sound fascinating. Can you suggest some reading material for those of us who might be interested in learning more about it?

    Marmot
  • BoPBoP
    Posts: 96
    hey marmot. I can suggest some websites and books. Book called : "exploring the world of lucid dreaming" has allot of interesting stuff and you can just go to google type in lucid dreaming and find most websites to be helpful.

    I found that almost everyone repeats same thing over and over almost same as if you type male multiple orgasm you will find articles with descriptions of same thing some are helpful some are useless.

    There are few basic things everyone will mention. First of analyze your ability to remember dreams, while some authors begin saying well if you have lucid dream how will you know if you do not remember anything in the morning. I say it is somewhat hard to believe since lucid experience will likely get you very exited and you are likely to wake up that moment and will have good memory of it.
    Great to start a dream journal I do not push myself if I wake up and remember my dream I write it down if I remember few dreams I write them down, usually do one page pointing main details and feelings things that I clearly remember if I write this down I usually only need to read few lines later to recall my dream. I rarely read my dreams since I have so many written but sometimes I do and it is easy to recall them if you have main point listed from that dream. There are days I do not recall or I am in a hurry to work or else and just pass on the journal. But writing things down and intention of recall will help you remember your dreams later. If you have intense dream that is vivid and and saturated write it down ASAP these dreams begin to fade and while they are in your mind you can get allot of details out. Remind yourself to remember dreams in the morning before you go to bed.

    Then you have lucidity induction techniques, this makes you wake up a a dream most simple sources state you are not active in a dream and there for do not question the environment so all you need to do is question it. So when you see something weird it is not weird to you in a dream world and you do not question it idea is to question some aspects of your life and lets say get a habit to ask yourself if you are sleeping and do a reality check when you perform some action. Reality check is basically take a good look at things around text, people and see if anything is out of the ordinary if you are dreaming you can notice something strange and realize you are in a dream. This is standard technique every website on lucid dreaming will have it. More you do it more conscious you will be.

    I honestly believe different in regards to lucid dreaming and why we do not remember but this is my point of view it seems to me that we people are sleeping most of the time in the real world not only at night and that is the reason for this situation with dreams. So much thoughts emotions and things happening that we literary sleep most of the time during the day. Sounds weird but it seems so to me when I run tests. If you concentrate now on something and try to keep concentrated you will eventually drift off and find yourself not doing what you intended. Thus I see a possibility to be more on point about my real life as well as dreams while practicing lucid dreaming.

    Best of luck.
  • rumelrumel
    Posts: 2,257
    BoP,

    You are now touching upon a concept called "Dreamtime", see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dreamtime , it is an ancient aboriginal belief system wherein your dream state is the true reality and your conscious reality is the illusion. It is an interesting concept.
  • artformartform
    Posts: 1,488
    Hi Marmot

    Would be happy to chat about hypnagogia in the KSMO chat box if you want to arrange a time. Wasn't there when you entered the word.

    Here are a few interesting and potentially helpful books:

    Lucid Dreaming: and the Art of Dreaming Creatively by Pamela Ball is a how-to book, to a degree, with a focus on dream management and the traditional spiritual applications and models of this phenomenon.

    Hypnagogia: The Unique State of Consciousness Between Wakefulness and Sleep by Andreas Mavromatis is comprehensive review of the phenomenon itself and it relationship to related phenomena such as dreams and meditation and the like. He also describes the brain mechanisms and function of hypnagogia.

    Both of these books have extensive bibliographies with lots of other potential reading sources.

    If you are interested in seeing and thinking about this in historical, cultural and ethnographic context, these books may be helpful:

    Dreamtime: Concerning the Boundary Between Wilderness and Civilization by Hans Peter Duerr, translated by Felicitas Goodman

    Inner Work in the Wounded and Creative: The Dream in the Body by David Roomy

    If dreams are a strong focus in your experience, the books of Wendy Doniger O'Flaherty may be of interest too, including: Dreams Illusion and Other Realities.

    Finally, for the ultimate earlier (Italian Renaissance) exploration of dreams and the eroticism of the material world, among many alchemical and other interests, the book that was essential for every architect in romance language cultures for 500 years, but unavailable in English until 1999, is a hypnagogic, dreamlike adventure (and source of the secret codes of the popular novel The Rule of Four) from the male perspective: Hypnerotomachia Poliphili: The Strife of Love in a Dream by Francesco Colonna, translated by Joscelyn Godwin. Eros, architecture, synaesthesia and adventure, layered and luscious, if you like it.

    all the best

    artform
  • BoPBoP
    Posts: 96
    Thanks for reply rumel and for bringing that concept up.

    I read about that model and I am not in agreement with it for many reason at least at this point, It all depends on perception, how you look at it. If you say that after death we keep on living as eternal being then we can say physical body is a dream and we are revisiting our real body while we sleep and eventually return to real body after death and we call this world a dream. Some religions stand on this idea for the most part not supporting rebirth idea but introducing this concept where after you die you will be somewhere in hell or elsewhere rewarded for all your good deeds. I do not want to go deep in to philosophy here =) but I am not following this idea since so many factors say different in fact dreaming is not beyond us and is measured and used.

    Concept of real or not real comes from "what is first?" idea since we tend to think that something is more real than other. We can say computer game is less real then real world but what if they are different worlds all together not build one on another or all are even parts of the same thing.
    So my vision is that dream to reality relation is very unstable since if you fall asleep and never wake up how will you ever know you are dreaming? What if you fall asleep in a dream? It is also very hard to say that dream is a "world" what if what we see in a dream is same world on another level lets say energy level? I tend to be very flexible since making solid definitions of things like dreaming limits their understanding.

    Some facts I found interesting. While asleep body is paralyzed completely and if you are to wake up at that moment of active sleep you would not be able to move.
    It is possible to communicate from dream world in to ours. Eyes are not paralyzed during active sleep and mover similar to movements you make in a dream so by moving your eyes in a dream signals can be sent to people monitoring your sleep and experiments can be made using this method of communication.
    Time can be slowed or stopped and while having few minutes of active sleep you can live few months in a dream.

    This is an interesting topic =)
  • artformartform
    Posts: 1,488
    BoP and everyone, what a rich and fertile topic and thread! Thanks all!

    BoP, your notes on dream journaling and the basic techniques of lucid dreaming are great. I journalled for awhile years ago, and found that like Aneros and KSMO, journalling your dreams is a kind of "training wheels" practice that sets up a permanent sensitivity and lasting capacity to simply "be there".

    You might be interested in thinking about this from the perspective of the Law of Conservation of Information that leading edge physics and cosmology are exploring. If information cannot be destroyed as seems to be the case, what does death mean for the human body/brain/mind, particularly if Rupert Sheldrake (The Sense of Being Stared At :shock: and other writings) is correct? Is our mind experience information indestructible in some form or some sense?

    Add this to quantum physics and its view that we live in an ever-expanding reality where a new universe is created each time any of us makes an either/or decision so that there is a universe where we decided x and another where we decided y. Quantum physics also emphasizes that we make our concrete reality experience by our intentionality and applied attention, rather than it being a fixed, concrete world as it appears to us. If we live in a bath-foam billowing multiverse of both/and rather than either/or, what is the ecology and purpose(s)/potential of the orgasmic energies we are unleashing here and at KSMO, and humanity has explored through Tantra, Tao and other practices for centuries?

    The place of dreams, dreaming generally, and lucid dreaming specifically, as well as the hynagogic "corridor" or "staircase" into these states at will, in this view of existence is fascinating to explore and question. Your intuition and intention to explore linkage of orgasmic energies and the dream/consciousness states is right on, a natural and necessary extension of our explorations and practices here.

    The Matrix series of films explored this too. What do you think of them?

    Or the What the (Bleep) Do We Know? films/sites? Have you seen them?

    Wouldn't it be interesting to have these "Aneros to the beyond" experiences mapped neurologically in fMRI imaging machines?

    BTW BoP, that a great new signature, as was your original one, and thanks for going ahead and setting up the poll!

    Time? Now there is an endless topic...:lol:

    happy voyaging to all

    artform
  • rumelrumel
    Posts: 2,257
    artform,

    Thanks for the reference material, hopefully one day I may have the time to pursue in depth these topics.

    BoP,

    There was an interesting film which came out in 2004 titled “What the … Do we know?” that dealt with the very issues of reality/spirituality and how thought interacts to change these things on the quantum physics level. I encourage you both to view it, if you haven’t already, as it is definitely thought provoking along these same topic lines. It certainly blurs the line between what one defines as “real” and “unreal”, I think each of us will conclude this is indeed a strange universe we live (dream?) in.
  • BoPBoP
    Posts: 96
    I enjoyed Matrix movies and still do, although I apply most of the ideas described in the movie to our real world and evolution as beings rather than to dreams. Matrix explain that everything you know this moment is one small brick in a large foundation and there is another completely different system of values as you move to the next level. For example I was able to have multiple orgasms while a go I was young kid in school and I thought noone in the world could do it and I could not talk about it, I simply experimented got the results and could not talk about it to anyone, later I found that there are people that can also have similar experience. Matrix shows how things we think are real and solid and static to us rules we live by our beliefs are pointless and useless on the next level, but we need to get this experience in order to move to the next. Same as grade one math seems simple when you are in grade 2 but it only does since you completed it, grade one math is not useless though it is a foundation to all the math course you will ever learn. I see one important msg in that movie nothing is set in stone you must be ready to accept the fact that world is absolutely not what you thought it is all your life, since if you can't then you will not move on. Something along the line of earth being round and everyone at one point had to accept it, not everyone did though.

    Research movies I usually do not follow since they are made to entertain they do offer some insight but also tend to make final statements and make people believe what was said is true and sometimes it is far from it. television and movies are controlled and their content is controlled, that content is made for one reason only to make money. Matrix was also made for money but sometimes it is possible to blend both in to one movie

    Thanks for the compliment on signature artform.

    Now time is a topic like any other but we need to get more specific on it in regards to what we want to talk about.
  • artformartform
    Posts: 1,488
    BoP said:

    For example I was able to have multiple orgasms while a go I was young kid in school and I thought noone in the world could do it and I could not talk about it, I simply experimented got the results and could not talk about it to anyone, later I found that there are people that can also have similar experience.



    1. BoP, was this what you actually experienced when you were young?

    2. Or, was this a dream recently about being young and having such an experience?

    3. Or both?

    If 1., have you read my blog post on youthful Intellectual Orgasms? at: http://www.aneros.com/displayentry.php?id=205

    Was there visual, aural, imagery, or coherent mental content of any kind in your youthful multiple orgasms beyond the bodily sensations?

    artform
  • BoPBoP
    Posts: 96
    It was my actual experience. I can not recall at this point this was some 5-6 years back. I then gave up on idea of sharing and just enjoyed myself.

    In addition I think it is good to mention that I am not big aneros user and started using aneros some litte over a year or so. I do it sometimes when I want something different but my vision is to be able to orgasm without any outside devices and I am very satisfied with where I am. Same goes for my school time I never used any toys to have multiples.
  • OH!!
    Posts: 260
    Funny you should bring up this topic. Last night I had a nice lucid dream. Yesterday my sexual energies were apparently high. Perhaps my testosterone was high or dopamine was high - not sure, but I can feel when I am 'primed' whereas other days it may be very weak or unsexual. Anyway during the afternoon evening I came off an OMG session using first the Helix, then MGX, then the Progasm. My technique is to start with the Helix because it doesn't really take active contractions with me to get p-waves and minor orgasms going. Next as I am really getting into the Helix, and starting to have decent orgasms I switch to the MGX. Once primed on orgasms the MGX digs deeper and makes me orgasm harder. I thought I was on top, but then after Super O's decided to plug in the Progasm with the K-Tab. Well, that was OMG orgasms! This is all background. Anyway, after a lull of about 4 or 5 hours and a meal it was time for bed. I thought I was worn out and it was 2am, but decided to slip the Peridise in. Immediately I started having contractions and orgasms. My ab muscles eventually after an hour or two of this were so sore I had to quit. So, after all this sexual orgasmic activity I finally went to sleep. During sleep I had lucid dreams. In one I was up in a house, and there was a party going on in the yard downstairs. There were lots of pretty women including some cheerleader types in skimpy outfits. I jumped on a branch of the tree and the weight made the limb swing down to the ground where I jumped off. There was a darker skinned girl in some hot pants type shorts and I just came up to her and grabbed her front abdominal area from behind and began groping her, and then pulled her pants down. You can imagine we had a bit of fun for awhile :lol: . Then I moved on to one of the cheerleaders. It was amazing in that I could almost will the activity to happen and I was noting in my dream how I could project and feel and these women seemed and felt really real.

    In summary, let me say I believe I've notice that laying for long periods and dosing / sleeping with the peridise in may lead to lucid dreams, or - as I did use it and then remove it. Additionally as I continue to state I believe fish oil / Omega 3's prime and set up your brain for sexual energy. If your brain is primed and wanting / thinking heavily about sex then you will tend to dream it. Watching porn before bedtime will probably do it and assist the effect as well.
  • artformartform
    Posts: 1,488
    Hi OH!!

    From my experience, I wonder whether you were lucid dreaming or rather in a state of hypnagogia, which I experience as different states, perhaps different rungs on some qualitative ladder of deeper and deeper dream states or something else...?

    We need a "thread merge" function here because I find your comments here and those in the "How many times did it take you?" thread really come to common ground. Can you tie them together for us as you experience them?

    Also, do you experience Day-After Effects at all, or regularly, the day after an aneros session?

    All the best as you voyage beyond Super-Os.

    artform
  • OH!!
    Posts: 260
    artform said:

    From my experience, I wonder whether you were lucid dreaming or rather in a state of hypnagogia, which I experience as different states, perhaps different rungs on some qualitative ladder of deeper and deeper dream states or something else...?



    Hmm...I'm not sure.

    artform said:


    Also, do you experience Day-After Effects at all, or regularly, the day after an aneros session?



    I will say usually after a long session I am physically worn out. I have to eat a lot, and seems I have to take in a lot of electrolytes. Mentally I feel very relaxed, though sometimes I'm a bit crabby cause I'm worn out.

    Next day...I think I benefit from all the orgasms. It seems my sexual energy is higher, and I am more interested in women, and relate better to them. I do at times have 'echo' type orgasms. My body will 'tick' a bit in orgasm mildly / briefly. This fades the longer I wait until the next orgasm. I'd say also my health has been steadily increasing with all the orgasms. It's amazing...I've had some health problems, but I am coming out of them and am becoming energized. All of my ailments are fading away and I am becoming vital. I really like it. I'll also add that the Aneros tools and Peridise have really improved my hemorrhoids and so far my PSA numbers aren't going up very much at all from all the prostate activity.
  • artformartform
    Posts: 1,488
    Hi OH!!

    It is very good to observe the various physiological impacts of our Aneros and other practices. I too have had that lower biochenistry energy level after sessions, but usually after a good sleep, often get those Day-After Effects and higher general energy and higher orgasmic energy levels! I launched a poll listing levels of those Day-After Effects in the Community Polls section of the Forum at: http://www.aneros.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3201

    It would be great if you could post there and situate your Day-After Effects in that scale. Great to hear of your general health benefits related to this practice. I too find that to be a major benefit.

    all the best in every dimension of your experience with all of this

    artform
  • MartyB
    Posts: 80
    Wow, this is a great thread, full of excellent info!

    artform said:

    Not too frequently and not yet at will, I can float into a lucid dream from a deeply relaxed awake state and maintain a conversation with mrs. a while being fully visually and partly aurally immersed in the dream and its landscapes or whatever environment, moving through it and interacting.


    Hi artform, the Mazatec shamans of Oaxaca Mexico have a plant that they use to induce visionary states of consciousness during spiritual healing. The plant is known as Diviner's Sage or Salvia Divinorum.

    I have some personal experience with Salvia and can say it lovingly grabs hold of you and seats you firmly in dreamland while you remain conscience and in complete control of your body the entire time. Visual and auditory senses are "mixed" together in your visionary state/dream. I've had vision states last from 1-10 minutes, your mileage may vary.

    I have an aversion to smoking anything, so I've entered most of my visionary journeys with hesitation and worry. All of my visions have started off with a clear reassuring sense of "Silly you, there's no need to worry or be afraid" except this message is communicated in feelings/emotions along with a sense on love. It's almost as if I'm becoming one with my subconscious. Salvia won't get you high or make you euphoric, everything you feel is what you mind wishes to share with you.

    It is a very personal spiritual experience; you want to be in a quiet dark room. Any input you get from the real world is mixed into and detracts from the experience. Any outside input creates a feeling of annoyance, after all this is a journey inward for you to learn and heal.

    Every experience for me has been positive. The only reward to be had by salvia is the discovery of yourself. The only after effect I have had is, when thinking about it, a sense of knowing something (my subconscious mind, God, the Cosmos) is looking out for me :)

    If it wasn't for the aneros, I might still be discovering myself through these visionary journeys, until my mind told me it had nothing more to show me.

    Enjoy the journey,
    Marty
  • artformartform
    Posts: 1,488
    Hi again MartyB!

    Very glad you found this thread and find it valuable too! :wink:

    Thanks very much for your information and story of personal exploration! I have to say that your description of the results fits some of my experiences too, although not with the herb you reference.

    I will have more info to post soon in our bioenergetics thread too!

    all the best as always

    artform
  • I got the book "Exploring the world of lucid dreaming" yesterday. Interesting reading!
  • Billy11
    Posts: 280
    That's awesome Bishop. That's one of the best books written on the subject! Everybody should learn to lucid dream with regularly. There's a whole other world to be conscious in with endless possibilities to explore!
  • Thanks Billy11! I am excited! I am starting a dream journal today. :)