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clarity on the gay thing
  • darwindarwin
    Posts: 1,195
    sorry to start yet another thread on this fascinating and controversial topic, but reading the thread about Straight Kats i had an insight. here it is:

    all of the guys on the forum who are questioning their sexuality based on the feelings of penetration from the aneros are discussing getting a nice fucking. sign me up! but... none are talking about doing stuff to the perpetrator for his pleasure. that is one of the things that defines sexual orientation: desire to give pleasure to the other person. for me, i am interested in being "serviced" by a guy because, like a good strong massage therapist, i think such a guy would probably do a really good job taking my body to the moon. why? because that guy will probably be gay, and would be driven by his desire to give me pleasure. would he want to eat out my ass for an hour? yes! would he want to make me moan by fucking me slow and nice? yes! etc.

    but, do i care if he moans? well, maybe in the real heat i might, but right now, no i could care less. do i want to do stuff to his body for his pleasure. nah, i don't. in fact, i have no desire to touch another man's body. them having an orgasm is not really of any interest to me.

    on the other hand, guys who are turned on by women definitely want to touch their bodies, make them all wet, and get them to pant and come. watching her face turns us on, etc.

    so, maybe that is what bi-curious means? curious about getting it from a guy more than giving?

    don't get me wrong, the overbearing taboo against homosexuality includes even the kind of servicing i described. but, for those questioning their sexuality, maybe this will lend some clarity.

    darwin
  • Yes, I think you're correct about this Darwin. I guess I inadvertently started this topic (or maybe revived it?) as a newbie so forgive me if we're visiting Aneros 101 for everyone else. I'm probably thinking more "catcher" than "pitcher" on this topic and I universally prefer women's bodies (God's ultimate work of art, after all) to men's....I think. I've never compared, but then again it's not really interesting to me. I enjoy watching guys cum, but that's probably because I like to cum too. Does that make sense?

    It's kind of confusing so it's probably good that we have a tolerant group who can have a healthy discussion on this stuff because "guys" rarely open up to each other this candidly, being the macho he-men that we all generally try to be.
  • tallguy
    Posts: 57
    [QUOTE=darwin;96410]...so, maybe that is what bi-curious means? curious about getting it from a guy more than giving?

    don't get me wrong, the overbearing taboo against homosexuality includes even the kind of servicing i described. but, for those questioning their sexuality, maybe this will lend some clarity.

    darwin

    Hey Darwin, I always enjoy your thoughtful posts. In this case, and as a long-time "bi-curious" guy who has had many talks (and even some experiences) with straight-living but bi-curious guys, I must disagree. There are a good number of bi-curious guys that are "all about cock" and may not necessarily be thinking at all about having some dude put it in their back door. Many bi-curious guys will tell you right up front, they are into mutual j/o, mutual oral, and are fascinated with the prospect of seeing if the same things that turn them on will turn another "straight" guy, on, too--as if to validate their sexual experiences. It's the ultimate circle-jerk.

    That's not just a joke. Many bi-curious guys are relating back to their pre-adolescent or adolescent years when same-sex play with buddies, cousins, brothers, etc., provided their first, electrical, indelible sexual feelings. And in many cases, such same-sex play was paired with true affection. No wonder that, after then being "processed" through the rituals of socially acceptable hetero dating, and the homophobic atmosphere of buddydom in college and the "roaring 20s," these pleasant M2M associations are buried deep, and only re-emerge later as "bi-curiosity" when one can take time to be more reflective about life and one's self.

    Does being bi-curious at any stage--early in life or later--mean not being interested in pleasing another guy? I think not! I can assure you even self-identifying "straight" guys like to see and hear the "money shot" of pure hetero porn. I think men instinctively are interested in all things sexual, and concern for or interest in the pleasure of others is central to the whole concept of adult sexuality, whether imagined or real.
  • darwindarwin
    Posts: 1,195
    tallguy, fair enough! that makes sense.

    but i think we might be able to agree that there are guys on this forum who are as i describe, though maybe bi-curious isn't the right term.

    how about fuck-curious?

    the interesting thing is that this kind of guy rarely if ever had such an interest until he discovered the wonders of penetration via the aneros. i am definitely one of these.

    as far as the money shot in porn, here is an example. i watch plenty of videos with guys in them, particularly aneros videos. they get me all hot, and sure a money shot might get me even hotter. but, i don't have any interest in touching those guys. actually i'd be kinda grossed out doing so.

    so, in sum, i think there is room for all kinds of sexuality here and everywhere, and i was trying to articulate one of the flavors.

    darwin
  • artformartform
    Posts: 1,474
    Hi darwin, acethebass, and tallguy!!!! :D :D :D :D

    [QUOTE=darwin;96427]tallguy, fair enough! that makes sense.

    but i think we might be able to agree that there are guys on this forum who are as i describe, though maybe bi-curious isn't the right term.

    how about fuck-curious?

    the interesting thing is that this kind of guy rarely if ever had such an interest until he discovered the wonders of penetration via the aneros. i am definitely one of these.

    as far as the money shot in porn, here is an example. i watch plenty of videos with guys in them, particularly aneros videos. they get me all hot, and sure a money shot might get me even hotter. but, i don't have any interest in touching those guys. actually i'd be kinda grossed out doing so.

    so, in sum, i think there is room for all kinds of sexuality here and everywhere, and i was trying to articulate one of the flavors.

    darwin

    INDEED DARWIN!! The male orientation spectrum is indeed a finely differentiated range of feelings and layers of types of connections/relationships. Whereass I registered in the poll as "Straight-bi", with mrs. a, we talk about me as Bisexual but significantly on the straight side of the bi midpoint/50/50. While I might engage as you describe in a prostate massage from a masseur, I am uncomfortable being touched by anyone I do not know in a caring way. I would have to know the guy or gal well.

    If I were to outlive mrs. a, the chances are heavily that I would marry another female. I love sex with a loving woman. I love the female body and all its parts, possibilities and delights. I also enjoy good male form aesthetically and have thrilled to warm personal male sex in the previous gay exploratory experience of my youth. I enjoyed both bottoming and topping, at least initially; then other factors overpowered and dampened that part of things. Although I generally do not like the demeaning atmosphere around the word, yes, when I was 16-17 I would have to say I was then "fuck-curious" after four years of solo prostate massage and prostate/anal orgasms.

    If I did not find the next mrs. "right", butt did find a man that I became deeply connected to and we formed a long-term relationship, would I have sex with him? Only if he too prefers mutual energetics and loving flip-flop! We all evolve through life and who can say...

    There is no question that aneros opens a male to these personal feelings, questions, and wonders! IMHO, we are all Bonobos on this bus and check out the daily M2M, as well as M2F sex between Bonobos. The human male anorectal canal was made for a erect penis-sized penetration (or a good long finger or two; nails cut back smooth) and that is not an accidental anatomical detail.

    all the best self revelation and personal erotic sensory/responses body/mind/spirit mapping and comfort zoning all

    artform
  • rookrook
    Posts: 1,603
    Hey guys nice thread !!

    @ace -- no, IIRC this isn't a revisit of 101. There's a constant flow of reconsideration here as terms are defined, redefined then either discarded or perhaps formalized into the Wiki. Any number can play! Nothing is superfluous! Everything that cums to the table is fine.

    I think that I see elements of my own orientation in both Darwin's "clarity" statement and tallguy's treatise on the evolution of a strait male.

    Were we to construct a complex poll, I'd be about 95% Darwin with a 5% flavoring from tallguy's thoughts.

    Aneros has made me more open to dialog with my gay buds. My own cut on Orientation:

    Ignoring psychoses, I believe that sexuality is more of a collection of tastes and preferences (some inborn, others nurtured) that build upon the basic inborn orientation of the individual. That collection defines a position along either a continuoum or perhaps along two or more axes. (Sexuality seems certainly more than just one-dimensional or two-dimensional.)

    Sex for me is a 'contact sport' rather than a spectator sport so porn offers me little. (However I did find ten's post of Japanese pegging a most charming and delightful view -- as much as for the cultural formality of the show as for the technical approach to pleasuring another human.)
  • kharrisma
    Posts: 29
    I love this place... can you just imagine dropping this stuff onto the bar with a resounding thud on a Friday night out with the guys? Probably be the LAST Friday night with that particular group!! This place makes you think, and examine deeply, and question... all good things! And everybody's still friends!

    Myself, the Aneros experience opened the floodgates to much self-examination; my initial discovery was of interest in being the 'bottom' in a bi/gay experience, due in large part to discovering the pleasure inherent in anal penetration/prostate stimulation. As was well-put by Darwin at the start of this thread, my hypothetical partner would enjoy himself for his own reasons, while I had my curiosity enjoyably satisfied; think of it as a REALLY thorough, really good massage by a talented masseur. But that was only the start; it got me to thinking about things such as how different sex with a man would be from a woman; how different it would feel to really *hug* another man in an erotic milieu; the fierce strength of it; the agressive kissing, the feel of larger male musculature under smooth skin... Hell yeah, I want to give, too!! I'm curious about not only whether I'd like to receive male attentions, but also how I'd actually feel about doing another guy, as well as how the other guy would react to my attentions ("wonder if I'd give good head?" he mused to himself...). And even after all these years, I still delight in slow, sensuous exploration of every little feature of my lil' buddy; I'd seriously like to see if this particular enjoyment carried over to another male partner. I'd probably grin ear-to-ear if I got him to moan and squirm! What I'm NOT sure is if I'd want my prospective partner to be full-bore gay, confirmed bi, or something a little closer to where I place myself (primary orientation hetero, about 80-85%, bi-curious the balance (15-20%.). I'm not sure WHY that feels like an issue to me; more thought required here.

    So at least in my case, my newly-found fascination lies not in being a passive recipient, but an active participant; tit-for-tat. Like rook said, for me good sex is a contact sport (although I DO enjoy being a spectator/vouyeur as well; enjoyable, but the lesser experience by far.)

    Karl
  • priapusonepriapusone
    Posts: 257
    LOL, kharrisma! Wow, that aneros has got you pretty darn hot!
  • priapusonepriapusone
    Posts: 257
    Not mocking, cause I know what you are feeling too! Maybe their should be "The Aneros Bar & Cafe" in some town for much bar room discussion!
  • artformartform
    Posts: 1,474
    Hi priapusone!! :D :D

    [QUOTE=priapusone;96454]Not mocking, cause I know what you are feeling too! Maybe their should be "The Aneros Bar & Cafe" in some town for much bar room discussion!

    Start this chain/franchise NOW priap, or HIH/Aneros, and in a decade or two you'll be a billionaire. Should work for Aneros Male Liberation® as well or better than the Apple Stores work for Apple!

    all the open revolutionary sociability in this community is as important as the physio-psychological transformation of each of us as we rewire all

    artform
  • tallguy
    Posts: 57
    [QUOTE=darwin;96427]tallguy, fair enough! that makes sense.

    but i think we might be able to agree that there are guys on this forum who are as i describe, though maybe bi-curious isn't the right term.

    how about fuck-curious?...

    i think there is room for all kinds of sexuality here and everywhere, and i was trying to articulate one of the flavors.

    darwin

    Yes, Darwin, we can definitely agree on that. You did a great job of articulating one of those flavors, and I was just providing alternative flavors under the general menu heading of "bi-curious."

    Love the thoughtful discourse that always develops here. Indeed, in what kind of bar...("Somewhere, sometime, somehow") could we or will will ever be able to sit around, guzzling Miller High Life, swapping tales like these??

    --G.
  • tallguy
    Posts: 57
    Kharissma,

    You and I are completely aligned. I feel your post did a better, more understandable job of making my point. I'm with you--as a sexual being interested in OTHER sexual beings, i want to see what makes them squirm! (You have disturbingly/pleasingly brought back some memories about certain hugs, firm kisses and strokes that only come from M2M contact...nothing like being awakened at 2 a.m. by a big hug from behind, made by strong and insistent big arms.) And I also COMPLETELY agree that I'd want my prospective partner to have the same general orientation and approach. It's human nature that we want to exchange experiences, and in particular to validate our experiences, with folks with whom we can most closely identify. In the case of sex play, it's also how we guard against embarrassment in the course of some very vulnerable moments. "Surely this guy, who feels equally queasy/curious/enthralled as I do about putting his "X" in my "Y", is not about to laugh at me!" I have shared some of these experiences and always felt much more gratified, if not electrified, when the partner's orientation struck the same balance as mine (self-identifying as, and most comfortable with, hetero, but with a pronounced bi streak). Agree with both you and Rook, it's the give-and-take that makes sex truly exciting and much more than a physical experience.

    Thanks all for a great thread.
  • I wish I could tell you guys more about myself, but my handle here would lead back to me so I don't want to create too many associative terms that might turn up in a google search. I am straight, and a month ago, the sight of gay sex utterly turned me off. I did not get it and did not want to participate. But I am a hedonist, and my owning an aneros would probably surprise no one who knows me. On the other hand, I'm in love with a married woman, and have a friend with benefits on the side (it has been a good year, this is not always the case!). I enjoy women. I prefer the company of women and choose them for my intimate relationships and I don't really see that changing.

    But when I had my first.... experience... with my aneros, I concluded that if getting fucked was anything like this, I would just drop all of my preconceived ideas and investigate. It has literally redefined the word 'orgasmic' for me.

    I have already started said investigation. I will tell you that I am not terribly concerned with the other person, but being an active participant is not nearly as difficult as I thought it would be.
  • artformartform
    Posts: 1,474
    Hi Micah Czar!! :D :D

    [QUOTE=Micah Czar;96675]...But when I had my first.... experience... with my aneros, I concluded that if getting fucked was anything like this, I would just drop all of my preconceived ideas and investigate. It has literally redefined the word 'orgasmic' for me.

    I have already started said investigation. I will tell you that I am not terribly concerned with the other person, but being an active participant is not nearly as difficult as I thought it would be.

    Well underway Micah then... Each man's journey here is unique, and all in their own ways experiments with experiences and one's own responses and erotic/energetic phenomenologies. Hope you keep a Log Book and let us know what you find. All the best with it all.

    all the very best safe experimental flights wider adventurers all

    artform
  • I'm sure this is just going to shine all kinds of light on the gay thing. So I just want to start off by saying I'm sorry this is so pornographically off-topic, and I won't be offended if it gets removed.

    Is it totally pussing out to stick to the trannies? That's what I did. I went and found a big, black tranny woman cuz it was the only person in the bar that I had any idea how to approach. I mean to tell you she was bigger than that bitch in Risky Business, and I'm a little guy. It was actually a crazy good time and I found I was very turned on by the whole thing.

    Then I stumbled across this... Angeles Cid

    And um. God damn. I am just sayin'. She could fuck me. The big black bitch didn't look nothin' like that.

    Ps. The bartender at one point was walking behind me with a tray in his hand and said 'Excuse me, I don't want to push anything into you that you aren't ready for.' OMG.
  • ten_s_nutten_s_nut
    Posts: 817
    Hello, Micah.

    From your post, it seems you did it with the big, black tranny. I doubt that being f***ed by a tranny qualifies as gay sex. The whole shemale thing really blurs the boundaries. I mean, Angeles Cid appears to be a beautiful woman I could imagine f***ing, except for the fact that she doesn't have a vagina.

    Cheers,

    Dave
  • Well thank you, sir, for that convenient rationalization. I think I shall adopt it as my own! :)
  • artformartform
    Posts: 1,474
    Well Micah and ten_s_nut!!! :D :D :D

    Here we are at the Naked Lunch bare + grill. Amazon.com: Naked Lunch - Criterion Collection: Peter Weller, Judy Davis, Ian Holm, Julian Sands, Roy Scheider, Monique Mercure, Nicholas Campbell, Michael Zelniker, Robert A. Silverman, Joseph Scoren, Peter Boretski, Yuval Daniel, Peter Suschitzky,

    InterZone, or what I called interspace of whole being in responding Voyager's great poetic response to Cyrul's Art: http://www.aneros.com/forum/f5/aneros-art-14606/

    This great thread and the others recently about Progasm in particular having raised these questions for numbers of users had unlocked some of these things for me again. Having resisted until I was seduced by transparent Ice, the "fullness feeling" big Aneros models (Ice, Max, Vice/Vibe) are now favourites too. As an active bi-guy in my youth who enjoyed bottoming too, this wider discussion has re-opened all of this even more for me. The excerpt below covers my unexpected further opening over the past couple of weeks and its wonderful integration energetically into my life again.

    from artform's Vice Review: The soft texture and slight give of the Vice is SO erotic and engaging: without vibe, Vice is the closest to a living cock in you from an Aneros product!! I love being able to sit up so comfortably in chairs/lounges with it in, in, IN! Vice without Vibe is the closest thing to being back in my youth bottoming, and has rekindled those memories physically.

    The great thing is that this has released more energies that I seemed to have been holding back. In a recent energies exchange-at-a-distance (more than a thousand miles), I found I was having a very powerful energies "sexual" bottoming experience that was surprisingly hugely liberating. This release of huge additional levels of orgasmic energetic joys quickly became energies that had mrs. a and I having a great higher hot energies gettogether soon after, undiminished at all by ejaculation, and they remained fully present powerfully for more than a week. They are now an elevated integrated part of the always present full spectrum energies background hum I have and love.



    A highly varied and far richer territory that might be imagined eh Micah!! Please keep your Log Book up to date, thanks!

    all the best voyaging through interspace all

    artform
  • kharrisma
    Posts: 29
    Hey Micah!

    Talk about courage!! That's the kind of thing I *dream* of doing, but lack the testicular fortitude to follow through on (thus far, anyway :) ) I have to respectfully disagree with ten_s_nut; I think sex with a tranny is gayer than gay! There are shades of sexuality, with 'vanilla hetero' at the top, gay/lesbian just below that, and from there it gets even kinkier; where the trannies and gender re-assigned live. Personally, I don't need the "guy with a female paint job," I'm fine with the guy as a guy. Sex is sex, and I find it disturbingly convenient that the average male rectum is of a size and depth to comfortably accommodate the average male erect penis, with the prostate strategically positioned for maximum benefit. Talk about "intelligent design!" Nothing against trannys; I agree that Angeles Cid is one of the most gorgeous creatures I've ever laid eyes on (God I envy her/him his/her skin, so smooth, silky, and even toned; my own resembles a plucked chicken with lizard scales! NOT pretty at all.) I just find the dichotomy between the "packaging" and the "contents" to be jarring; if I'm dealing with a male, at least in my mind, he should look like a male, even if an effeminate one. I still prefer women, though who knows how I'll feel after my first few experiences with a man, whenever that occurs (and I've no doubt it will; I do not pursue, but I do not rule out; if the circumstances are right, I'll definitely "bite" {but gently, so gently...})
  • priapusonepriapusone
    Posts: 257
    lol, yes we must be so gently in our bites! Yikes!
  • ten_s_nutten_s_nut
    Posts: 817
    Hello, kharrisma.

    Your plain-to kinky sexual orientation spectrum sounds about right to me, except for the gender re-assigned. Those people become what they change to and go back to the plain end of the spectrum.

    I don't know what to make of the shemales. You called them, "gayer than gay," which doesn't seem to fit. As you pointed out, gays are men; sometimes very macho men. And, effeminate gays remain men even wearing eye shadow. So, shemales are just effeminate gay men with boobs? If so, why would they want to "top" a guy? Do they tend to form long-term sexual relationships with gay men, straight men, other shemales, women? Their whole body image sends confusing signals.

    I just hope all those shemales are happy being whatever they are.

    Cheers,

    Dave
  • priapusonepriapusone
    Posts: 257
    MMM, tensnut, they make me so honry! I love how they look too!
  • I can't pretend to understand what everyone is thinking. If the foxy tranny wants to top me, I'll just adapt as best I can. In the name of... uh... getting my rocks off.

    So I was looking on craigslist the other day and a 'transman' was posting in m4m. So I wrote and asked what a transman was exactly, because all the terminology gets a little confusing when you get beyond the basics. So this person was f2m, evidently post op, but at least identifies as a man and likes men. He was looking for a guy to jerk off with. The circle jerk, that's fine, whatever gets you off. But surgically changing yourself (or just your body,if that is more PC) from a straight woman to a gay man? Really?! Yeah, that's a little beyond me.

    It is educational though... there's a lot more variety out there than one might think. Happily for us all, for every deviation, there appears to be a fetish.

    Just to throw some stuff into the knowledge base, my particular tranny identified as 'a man in a dress' (yes, I asked). She told me that most trannies like to be tops. I commented several times to her that that didn't make any sense. Just the same, it was good news all around because that's what I was looking for, and she isn't the only one.

    And finally, you know, we didn't end up going all the way (that's what being overweight at 40 will get you), so I think I'm going to take a mulligan.
  • Here is a private message that I sent to dtsmith addressing this topic. It is very long as I did my best to honestly answer the questions dtsmith had, which are very similar to the questions here. I wrote the original document in Word, then pasted it here, which means the formatting is a little messed up. If you can bear with a few strange line breaks, I think the information posted will be somewhat useful, at least I hope so. It might be easiest to copy and then paste into a word document. Again, I do appologize for the formatting. I'm having difficulty posting it any other way.

    I've been fortunate enough to have a few friends in my life who are at various stages of the transgender scale. Both are born genetically male, but vary in their degrees of femme qualities. One good online friend of mine is a true tgirl. She was born as a male, but without a doubt is a female. She is dead set on getting surgery as soon as she can afford to do so and the time is right. With her, she knew from birth she was a woman. She got beat up a lot at school, and has had much family strife. At nineteen she starting taking hormones. At this time, she's with a woman who has a daughter and together they have a happy home. She recently revealed to me that after a year, the daughter has finally started to call her mommy as well. I had a lot of questions myself for this friend, and she was kind enough to answer all of them, which gave me great insight into myself and a better look at tgirls. Trannys and
    shemales are what she called the "industry" name. Most girls, true tgirls, take offense to such terminology. She doesn't want to be treated any different than any other woman.

    Then my other friend, whom I've known since middle school, recently came out a few years back that he was a woman. He too started doing hormones and dressing up and going to therapy. I was discussing this friend with my friend mentioned above. I was trying to gain insight into him a little
    bit. She kept asking me questions about him, and later determined that he wasn't a true tgirl, but perhaps a transvestite or crossdresser. I asked her why she thought this way, and she said it was based on a few statements that he would constantly make. Such as, he would say that he couldn't go full girl until he finished some things as a man first. To her, and she even admitted to being an elitist bitch in this regard, being a tgirl is not a choice. She was born that way. I think it's a similar argument for
    being gay. I made the mistake in my early exposure of saying one good friend of mine choose to take a gay female lover. She kind of went off on me, but in a more correcting tone than one of genuine anger.


    So, having these two benchmarks to gage myself, I am certain of a few things. But, before that, my background is that I was certain I was straight until about 10 years ago. I am divorced. When I first met my ex's extended family, the first thing her grandfather said to her was, "You know he's gay right?" This was after just meeting me. I attribute that to me being quiet and shy more than anything. I've come a long way in overcoming my shyness, but still don't do the greatest in large
    groups. I still remember the day I saw my first Playboy. That changed my world. I was girl crazy from that moment on. For the longest time, I was sexually attracted only to women. When I got married, my ex and I had a strong sexual relationship. It was very open. I knew I liked anal. I had learned that in my teenage years when I first discovered masturbation. She and I would share toys often. Yet, I never felt an attraction to men during that time. I did begin to discover my fondness for women's clothes though. A few times I would dress in her clothes and we would have sex. She revealed that she didn't get turned on by the idea, but she was more tolerable than I thought. I would shave my underarms and legs and wear her panties to work often.

    When we were splitting apart, I was a mess emotionally. Issues that I didn't want to face kept bubbling to the surface. One was my budding attraction to men. I was repulsed beyond belief at the thought of two men having sex or sexual acts. I think it was my ingrained homophobia. But, I just
    sort kept myself going down that road. I was doing my best to discover if what I was feeling was real. These sorts of thoughts and feelings I expressed in a story which is still posted on Literotica. My wife was more than gracious in her anal play with me. I knew from my teenage years that enjoyment of anal was not the issue. I guess I just didn't want to be gay.

    On my own I kept exploring these ideas and sensations. I was talking to my friends a lot, and really
    struggling with what I was feeling. I recalled that during my teenage years I would find myself looking at the occasional guy in the shower room. Then I remembered this one guy from work many years ago that I just was drawn too. He and I were talking in the front of the store one day, and this is the retail pharmacy that I work at, and I just almost went in for a kiss! There was no warning, no overt invitation. I just sorta leaned and had to stop myself. I don’t know what it was about this guy.
    He was about my height, medium brown hair like mine, had a face full of metal like no other. I just knew I want to embrace those thick, rich lips and play with that metal loop pierced on the end of them. I had to pull back. He kinda looked at me, but I guess I stopped soon enough because he never said anything. I was married at the time too. It was more reaction that conscious thought. That’s kind of when I had to really come to terms one way or another with who I am sexually. I met a couple in Las Vegas and we were setting things up with a three way. The husband was bi and the wife really liked watching two guys getting it on. At this point I was split from my wife. We started something in a hot tub, but I just couldn’t go through with it. I had too many self-conscious issues and religious hang ups to really go for what I wanted. They had to leave the trip early to take care of a sick child back home, but it just so happens that while I stayed an extra day, I ran into an older guy who was gay. I didn’t know it at first, and he came on to me and invited me to lunch. We talked candidly and frankly about things, my hang ups and such. We went back to his room later, but nothing happened again. He was just too old for me, but he complimented me the whole day, took me out to dinner, flirted like mad, it was
    fun all in all.

    I’ve only dated one guy. He was before my current girlfriend. She knew back then that I was confused and trying to figure things out. We were at Hustler Hollywood and ran into him. He was an old high school mate of mine. He was in my sisters graduating class one year ahead of me. I knew in high school he was gay. That doesn’t stay quiet long in high school. So, we “dated” but it wasn’t really dating. The
    night that we hung out together, after he got off work and my girlfriend (before she was my girlfriend) was with us. We all grabbed a bite to eat, but when we were leaving, he just wanted to make out and such. The one and only date we really had he took me to a record store. Mostly it was him wanting to go back to his place. That was just not my style. Too much too soon I guess. To be honest, I’ve only had sex with three women. My current and I have had a few threesomes with other guys, but nothing substantial at all, and only one of them let me suck him a little, which I enjoyed greatly.

    I refer myself as trans right now because I am in transition. I’m not really sure into what though. I fight with myself all the time about who I am. Am I a tranny? Crossdresser? Girly boy? I don’t know. I look back at when my mom taught me to sew and crochet. I think that those times when I was younger doing that with her was just my way of spending time with her and wanting to feel that love from her. My mom on the whole has not been there for me often. So, maybe I over glamourize those moments. I do know that I get sexually excited from being femme. I also get a sense of security and comfort. Maybe
    it’s the female love I want to feel that I never felt growing up. My family lived very secluded from one
    another even in the same house.

    I’m sorry to go on for so long, but I felt some background might give some more insight. This is as genuine an answer as I know. I’m not sure exactly who I am or what I am. I know my tendencies, and
    when I’m not uptight and let myself relax, I know what I gravitate towards. Sometimes I feel that in my
    exploration of these different sides to me I overcompensate. I try to be too girly or too strong and masculine. When I don’t think about it, that’s when I find that I am a very close and well blended mixture of both. I’m sensitive, but also distant at times. I can be very sweet and compassionate, but
    also a total jerk and asshole. I know we all have those sides to us though.

    So, after explaining my mindset, I feel that now I can answer your questions more directly.

    I do not feel like a woman born as a man. I feel like a man who wants to expand himself and not limit himself and allow the other half of me to also be just as free. I can tell I’m not a natural tgirl like my
    first friend mentioned. She was a girl from birth born into the wrong body. When I see the way my five year old niece is on a daily basis, I know what it means to be a girl. I know that’s not me at heart. At the same time, I also view myself much older than my five year old niece and take much inspiration from Dita Von Teese. Lately I’ve really gravitated towards her body of work as inspiration. I’ve been fully dressed in makeup and corsets and tiaras and hose and such before. I know I do not make the most beautiful woman. I still have a very manly face. I get sad a little at that idea. I’d like to look like a woman when I dress up, but that’s just what I’ve come to accept. I am a blend of both male and
    female in gender, but a man in body. At this stage in my life, I would not get a sex change. If I did, I would want facial reconstruction as well. I’ve come to peace with what my body is. That’s how I know this is who I am meant to be. Those who truly need the surgery, like my friend, knows that the body is just wrong. It’s a mental distress that can cause impediment of daily living. That’s one of the criteria for surgery consideration. There is a whole process of therapy, hormone therapy, and group therapy,
    that lasts for a year before surgery is even considered. Even at that point, one must live as woman for a year before surgery, as the new woman or man that they are in order to get accustomed to the life and let others in that person’s life get used to them.

    I’ve noticed that I am very sexually attracted to women, but find myself wanting to fall in love with men very easily. There’s a handful of men that will just light me up and get me going on sight. However, most women do that almost instantly. I’m a monogamous guy. No matter who I’m with, that’s who
    I’m with, man or woman. My girlfriend and I agreed mutually on the threesomes. It is a common misconception that bisexuals are sex starved sex fiends that need cock and pussy all the time. That’s just not true. A person’s gender can be different from their sex. A person’s sexual orientation doesn’t have to be associated with their gender. A person can be slutty or loyal no mater what.

    So, what excites me sexually? That’s a large bag my friend. There’s not much that doesn’t excite me sexually. I’m into BDSM, and I like to switch between sub and Dom, even in the same “session”. So far experience has been limited to light BDSM, but I’d like to learn more. My ex was a true sub. I went to
    the dark place of BDSM and became abusive. I hadn’t learned to control my anger and frustrations and various aspects of myself that one should be in full control of before becoming another’s Master. I’m into nearly all toys, anal, nipple, vibrators, bondage, floggers, whips, canes, hot oils, feathers, leather, etc… I’d love to ride a Sybian myself. Power for me has always been a concern. Who’s in charge and struggling for power is deeply ingrained in me for some reason. I like to give just as much as I receive. I almost had an orgasm last night just lying in bed thinking of myself dressed in a frilly pink teddy with matching hose and lacy garter belt on my knees blowing a guy. My cock started pre-cumming like I had a Progasm in me. My whole body shook with sexual energy and passion. Then I switched the mental image to a woman laying next to me in bed rubbing my electrified hardness through a set of silk panties. The combination of feeling free and physical silk feeling drove me to another shuddering spasm. At the same time, the other night my girlfriend and I were on the couch, and I was releasing like an animal in the
    wild. Every sense of maleness in me was alive and in charge. There are also times where I’ll start with my girlfriend and be in total control and on top, then we switch, and I see that she’s into and taking over control, and I’ll let go and wrap my legs around her back and just melt into her strong embrace and loving rhythm. This is how I know that feeling male and female is more than just clothes. I can be totally naked, or in sweats and a tee shirt like last night, and it’s the thought, it’s the mind set, of this other side to me coming free and just being. She knows that I have a dildo that I use when I absolutely must have a
    hard cock in me. There are plenty of times that happens. I have an 11 inch double that I intended for her and I to share, but we never have. She used a strap-on on me once, and it was kind of impromptu, and I didn’t get to fully clean, things got a little messy. She’s been turned off of that idea ever since, but kinda slowly coming back around.

    I know as I grow older I’ll loose the femme features that I’d like to see in my body. But, I’m okay with that. I’d like to start a collection of femme wardrobe, but I know it would bother my girlfriend. So, I take comfort in what I have right now. I’m still learning who I am. I still do everything I want that excites me. Ultimately, I’m learning to quit trying to define who or what I am in terms of gender, sex, sexual preference etc…I’m just trying to be a better me. God made me this way for a reason. I’m going to trust in that.
  • azhacker
    Posts: 3
    I'm brand new to all this and completely hetro. I am not at all homophobic but I have zero interest in other men sexually. based on my obviously limited experience I think that trying to place the aneros experience as gay or even sexual in the traditional sense is simply misleading and an attempt to simplify and label (or classify) what is happening. I would very much agree with those who label it as some sort of journey of self discovery. The aneros is after all a closed loop system you share with no one out of necessity. So while any decision to share an aneros experience with a third party would be a reflection of your sexual orientation your personal explorations are just that....a trip to another dimension inside yourself....
  • priapusonepriapusone
    Posts: 257
    I just think it a very sexy journey, and whatever!
  • kharrisma
    Posts: 29
    Hi, ten_s_nut

    I guess that's what I was trying to get at with all of that; there's a disturbing dichotomy about a "hot chick" that happens to be a man. If I'm going to be with a chick, she needs to BE a chick; by the same token, If I were to be with a man, he would need to LOOK like a man, at least as far as I'm concerned.

    As far as the gender re-assigned: "I don't see them as back to vanilla;" they may indeed appear to be female (or male), but are in fact NOT what they appear to be. I see it as the ultimate "stealth gay." But then, I rarely see things in a "normal" light, anyway....

    Shemales: I meant to say not that they themselves are "gayer than gay," but that having sex with one would have to be classified as gayer than gay. Sex with a guy is gay (or at least Bi.) Sex with a guy who does as much as he can to ppear female while retaining his junk... well, to ME anyway, that's as gay as it can get. Gay with a twist, shaken, not stirred. My own feelings, not trying to convert anyone.

    Yah, me too. It's tough enough being straight, or gay... add complications like that into the mix, and happiness becomes difficult, to say the least.
  • priapusonepriapusone
    Posts: 257
    I love vanilla, its nice and natural!
  • priapusonepriapusone
    Posts: 257
    feels so good too!
  • kharrisma
    Posts: 29
    [QUOTE=azhacker;96769]I'm brand new to all this and completely hetro. I am not at all homophobic but I have zero interest in other men sexually. based on my obviously limited experience I think that trying to place the aneros experience as gay or even sexual in the traditional sense is simply misleading and an attempt to simplify and label (or classify) what is happening. I would very much agree with those who label it as some sort of journey of self discovery. The aneros is after all a closed loop system you share with no one out of necessity. So while any decision to share an aneros experience with a third party would be a reflection of your sexual orientation your personal explorations are just that....a trip to another dimension inside yourself....

    Hey azhacker! I don't think anybody is saying that use of the Aneros is inherently gay in and of itself. The reaction or realization that we see so frequently is that after experiencing the intensely pleasurable feelings generated "in there" by the Aneros, many of us question our long-time outright dismissal of any possibility of being physically intimate with a man. The oft-mentioned, " if a piece of plastic feels this damned good, then...."

    Agreed, this is all strictly on the plane of sheer physical sensation, pleasureseeking. There is, or can be, far more to the use of an Aneros than simple pleasureseeking. It all depends of how far you want to carry it, how much you're willing to put into it (or how much you're willing to put it into you :) ), what you hope to get out of it, etc. Like so many other things, different people have different takes on what they want out of any given activity. You can be as banal or as ethereal as you wish; there's room for all!
  • ten_s_nutten_s_nut
    Posts: 817
    Rika;

    Thanks for posting your autobiographical take on gender and sexuality. It was very honest and enlightening. I hope you will continue to live your life openly and freely.

    One day in the Aneros chat room, you mentioned that you were writing a story that had some of those themes. Given the depth of your experience, your family and friends, you might want to consider writing a Creative Non-Fiction novel, assuming that would not cause massive personal repercussions when published.

    If you don't mind, please expand on one thing you touched upon: T-girls vs Shemales. Is it your understanding that the shemale thing is an entertainment industry phenomenon, not a genuine sexual sub-category? Self-created by effeminate gays for profit?

    Best Regards,

    Dave
  • [QUOTE=ten_s_nut;96780]Rika;

    Thanks for posting your autobiographical take on gender and sexuality. It was very honest and enlightening. I hope you will continue to live your life openly and freely.

    I am doing the best that I can in this regard. I doubt that I would ever publich anything non-fiction autobiographical anytime soon. I would like to write ficitional stories that highlight the difficulties of being a LGBT person in today's world. Many victories have been won in the community, but many more struggles persist. For example, I rarely tell my co-workers that I'm bisexual. I told one set of coworkers at a former store, I've transfered stores four times total all for positive reasons. I only mentioned it to that store really because there was a gay guy working there and I felt comfortable. Contrast that to any other place I've worked at. I've not been "out" and many don't even suspect me of being bi or anything. So, I hear all the snarky comments behind the backs of our gay customers. The first store I worked at, everytime a gay person would come in, after they left the murmurs would being suspecting whether that person was gay or not. At another store, we had many no doubt about it gay people. After they would leave, one of my co-workers, and friend all in all, said that he "fucking hates fags". This hurt me deeply and is part of the reason I don't "come out". I have a set of coworkers now I would really like to come out to, but don't for two reasons. One, the pharmacist I work with is a really cool guy, but I can tell he is uncomfortable with the idea of gay people. Although, it seems like he is genuinely trying, which is sorta why I wanna come out. Knowing someone gay or bisexual can ease a lot of fears. But, the other reason I don't come out is because it wouldn't enhance anything really. Nothing would be better because of my coming out. Although I would feel a sense of relief, it's not to a degree that would alter things much. I'm fine with the status quo really. However, I don't try to hide my interests either. Just no one has said anything. Now, in regards to crossdressing, that is a more guarded secret.

    [QUOTE=ten_s_nut;96780]
    If you don't mind, please expand on one thing you touched upon: T-girls vs Shemales. Is it your understanding that the shemale thing is an entertainment industry phenomenon, not a genuine sexual sub-category? Self-created by effeminate gays for profit?

    Best Regards,

    Dave

    To answer this question, let me ask you a question.

    Imagine all your life you've just wanted to fit in and belong, but don't physically match the group your meant to be with. A man who is born a woman does not have the right parts. She is in essence already a freak of nature. However, women are beautiful and graceful creatures! They inspire art and even wars! Oh, there is power with women my friend. So, being in the wrong skin, it is easy to become insecure. How would you feel then knowing that those you want to impress or be with only want you because you have a penis? Many girls once they transform loose a ton of male attention because they lost the penis. It's the attraction to the unnatural. Shemale is a term that capitalizes on this phenomena. It's geared and marketed as a fetish. The term is not a polite one to t-girls. They often feel like they have something to prove to g-girls. On top of that, most have lost family, friends, and have faced ridicule most of thier life. The greatest thing I think a t-girl can be called is woman. I was very encouraing with my middle school friend. I used the name he gave himself as a woman. I refered to him as her. It was he who eventually corrected me. That's about all I know of the subject really. There are some great websites that promote understanding of t-girls and what it's all about. :)

    Thank you for genuinely being interested and asking questions instead of making assumptions. I know I derailed the "bi-sexual" or being gay topic a little bit.

    Darwin, if you get anything from my post, it's this.

    You are who you are man. Pleasure is just pleasure. Attraction is attraction. It's that simple. If you're attracted to men, find them desirable to be around, want to sustain a serious relationship, want to enjoy the full company of a man, then I say that may require some further exploration. Be honest with yourself. If you find the stimulation from an Aneros device leading you down a path of question, fugghedaboutit! You're having great sensations from a product with that purpose in mind. Would a gay man think he's straight becuase a Fleshlight gives him orgasms? Just something to think about.
  • ten_s_nutten_s_nut
    Posts: 817
    Rika;

    I took your suggestion to research "Shemale" and got this, from Wikipedia:

    Some have adopted the term as a self-descriptor but this is often in context of sex work.[11][23][38] Transsexual author Kate Bornstein wrote that a friend who self-identified as "she-male" described herself as "tits, big hair, lots of make-up, and a dick."[39] Sex researchers Mildred Brown and Chloe Rounsley said, "She-males are men, often involved in prostitution, pornography, or the adult entertainment business, who have undergone breast augmentation but have maintained their genitalia."[40] According to Professors Laura Casta├▒eda and Shannon Campbell at the University of Southern California's Annenberg School of Journalism, "Using the term she-male for a transsexual woman would be considered highly offensive, for it implies that she is working 'in the [sex] trade.' It may be considered libelous."[2] Melissa Hope Ditmore, of the Trafficked Persons Rights Project, notes the term "is an invention of the sex industry, and most transwomen find the term abhorrent."[41] Biologist and transgender activist Julia Serano notes that it remains "derogatory or sensationalistic."[42] According to sex columnist Regina Lynn, "Porn marketers use 'she-male' for a very specific purpose — to sell porn to straight guys without triggering their homophobia — that has nothing to do with actual transgendered people (or helping men overcome their homophobia, either)."[43] According to sex columnist Sasha, "The term shemale is used in this setting to denote a fetishized sexual persona and is not typically used by transgendered women outside of sex work. Many transgendered women are offended by this categorization and call themselves T-girls or trans."[44]

    Basically, that's what you said, a bit more politely.

    My conclusion is that "Shemales" are gay guys exploiting the sexual fantasies of straight men.

    Best Regards,

    Dave