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Progress, Need some help from the experts
  • awakening
    Posts: 9
    Hi

    Messers Mayfield, Pan et al. Or any other fellow journeyman: Please help

    This is my first post, though I've loitered here quite a lot.

    The reason for my post (and nick) is that I've recently had my first *real* experience with my Helix, and my worldview has changed.

    I will try to be brief, although I feel like gushing words, and I apologize in advance if somewhere on this forum my questions have been answered. I have looked, and read, a lot.

    After many 'unsuccessful' sessions [meaning pleasurable but nothing more than a dildo or such would provide] I listened to the sound samples of the Hypnaneros [?] CD, and for the first time grasped the duration of contraction required.

    This was enough. First run, very relaxed, sexy atmosphere, deep breathing no expectations, I held a long, light spinchter contraction, lying on my side one leg up, the bottom one slightly bent, when the Helix started to jiggle. Trying to remain calm [this was the first time anything happened], and promptly, I had the most wondrous, though brief experience of nerve-current pulsing from prostate to my toes and back, with my scalp pulling taut, feeling the Helix 'dancing-pounding' rapidly on my prostate. This is when my worldview changed.

    I have subsequently come to the guess that this was what is referred to as a mini-O.

    First question: Does this sound about right? Mini-O? [Oh I miss it so...]

    I tried to keep my nerve, and contraction constant, but never again had that sensation in three subsequent sessions, and desperately desire it. Later, my entire pelvis 'pumped, quaked and shook' and I resolved to ride it out, holding on to the bed [like air turbulence], and judging from the milestones on the Wiki, I have experienced several of those steps. At first the large muscle quaking was thrilling but only mildly pleasurable, but later on I did feel that my spincter was still going mildly.

    Problem: I think that these large muscle quakes came from trying to sustain and support the anal contraction for longer than I was able, and then basically spasm-ed. And I feel that they were to the detriment of the prostate sensation. Further, they would come and go, lasting a minute or three, until I remember to relax, and then realize that I have unconsciously been pumping my pelvis myself, that it was not all just muscle spasm.

    Second question/s: Should I try avoid this kind of quaking, if I believe that it comes not from the 'true' process, but rather contracting the wrong muscles? Or if I should keep them going, how do I do that, without them subsiding? And during all this commotion, should I still try to maintain the anal contraction, or yield to the rectal pushing impulse? When I realize that I'm pushing a bit, I tend to try keep the contraction, but that usually breaks the process also, and the humping subsides anyway.

    I theorize that I need to tone my spinct, and have been successful trying to get quivers going without the Aneros, in the car, office chair, etc. These quivers are mild but very pleasurable, and can produce noticeable pre-cum.

    Question: is toning my spinct in this way advisable, and is it good preparation for a aneros session later in the day, or should I avoid this before sessions for fear or tiring it out, or avoid altogether? It feels like it is good practice, and gets me more attuned to my body. As I type this I've got a nice little vibration going.

    Later I have tried to recreate exactly the first experience scenario, and in those subsequent [post-Mini-O] sessions, after avidly reading up more here, I've tried on my back with pillow under butt, feet flat, and legs spread up and open, and stretching buttocks open with hands, and on all fours and on knees with torso on bed and a few others.

    Importantly, as honest as I can be with myself, I have tried to enjoy [successfully, yes] each session for what it is, without expectations, for as far as I can manage.

    Everytime I can get the jiggle going pretty quickly, but not yet had that same zing. All the writhing and such come as well, though I still feel that I should first try isolate the spinct and focus my energies on the more subtle things. Some of these sessions I finished of with great masturbation ejaculatory orgasm, with incredible penile sensitivity and quite some volume and strength of shot.

    Then, Ive tried 'Do Nothing' but it did nothing. I have tried sleeping with Aneros in, but slept. I have also tried relaxing and imagining the continuous orgasmic "Fantasy Method", and it is very pleasurable, with some interesting fantasies as a result, and it gets the quivering and large spasms going. When I lose a bit of focus, and remember to fantasize, it gets a great and immediate response in my body.

    Question to Mr. Pan. It is not yet possible for me to intensely imagine a continuous ejaculatory orgasm without some muscles becoming unrelaxed. Is this a deal breaker for that method?

    I have checked to make sure that the tab is on my sweet spot, I think it is, and Ive tried to steady it with two fingers, but feel that this interrupts my ability to just focus on the sensations, and makes me too aware or worried about the device.

    Lastly, the main question: What next, where do I go to find my Mini-O again. I'll settle for that, for now, and can just dream of where this journey might lead, but I need some pointers for the way...

    Thanks for bearing with the long post, and hope to hear from any of you guys soon...
  • rumelrumel
    Posts: 2,257
    (Note : Underlined Text is a Hyper-Link)
    Hi awakening,

    Welcome to the Forum,

    I'll try to give you an answer to some of your questions (it may not be THE answer though).

    "First question: Does this sound about right? Mini-O?" Yes, this sounds like a mini-O, keep in mind that all of your sensations will be a unique combination for you, they may approach descriptions written by others but not necessarily match them. For this reason, please do not underestimate or undervalue these unique feelings you are and will be experiencing, this is your personal journey, have fun exploring all the little nuances you will encounter along the way.

    "Second question/s: Should I try avoid this kind of quaking, if I believe that it comes not from the 'true' process, but rather contracting the wrong muscles?" I don't know what you mean by "...the 'true' process," but I infer from your statement a certain desire to control your body's response to this form of stimulation. IMHO, this is going to be counterproductive, I believe you should allow your body to react in any manner it so chooses, allow yourself the luxury of going along for the ride and see where it leads you. There are many muscle groups in the pelvic area, I don't believe any of them should be categorized as the "wrong muscles", you need to experiment with using different groups in different combinations to find a combination which produces the most pleasurable reactions. You need to understand that as you gain more muscle tone and strength your pattern of contraction is likely to evolve as well.

    "Question: is toning my spinct in this way advisable, and is it good preparation for a aneros session later in the day, or should I avoid this before sessions for fear or tiring it out, or avoid altogether?" IMHO, any exercise which tones, strengthens and enhances endurance to the muscles and it pleasurable as well is a definite plus. I invite you to read 'darwin's thread Kegel aerobics as a reference point.

    "Question to Mr. Pan: It is not yet possible for me to intensely imagine a continuous ejaculatory orgasm without some muscles becoming unrelaxed. Is this a deal breaker for that method?" I'll let 'Pan' respond to that question.

    "Lastly, the main question: What next, where do I go to find my Mini-O again." I think you are off to a great start, with an open, inquisitive mind and a good attitude. Be patient with yourself and understand the rewiring process is not a linear progression with any kind of predictability. I think you should continue having sessions experimenting with various techniques, even retrying techniques that may have been fruitless initially may prove beneficial on a second go around. It is pointless to go chasing after a Mini-O much less a Super-O, rather, let them track you down during a session, the surprise is always a lot of fun when it occurs. :lol:
  • awakening
    Posts: 9
    Mr Rumel
    Thank you for your great comments. I know you are right, and have realized some of these things myself tonight. I have read many of your posts, and it rings a distant [for me] truth. Thank you for the notebook, very helpful, and you are dead-on with point G.

    Allow me to clarify some points, also for my own benefit...

    I don't know what you mean by"...the 'true' process," but I infer from your statement a certain desire to control your body's response to this form of stimulation.



    By 'true process' I attempted to say: Not jumping the gun, not achieving the dramatic effect [thrashing around] too quickly at the expense of the gradual self-amplifying growing sensation.

    In that first successful session, it was these small sensations that rapidly built to the Mini-O.

    I understand that there is no wrong or right. To just feel and grow, learn. But the distinct impression that I got was that these large muscle quakes are centered in inner thighs, but especially outer buttocks, which cause big motion. This is exciting, to be sure, but overwhelms the entire notion of tuning into the subtle feelings. Tonight I tried to relax those muscles a bit more [egocentric control, I know] with good effect.

    Here is the interesting thing for me: I am able to feel and enjoy the subtle magic happening down there almost better without the Aneros, especially soaking in a bath tonight. Delight at being able to control the tempo of oscillations with the slightest PC movements.

    Is this kind of control also problematic? If I understand all of this correctly, I think not.

    Do you know of anyone ever trying the Aneros in the bath? With correct type of lube, of course.

    I think you are off to a great start, with an open, inquisitive mind and a good attitude. Be patient with yourself and understand the rewiring process is not a linear progression with any kind of predictability.



    This is a great answer, but I realize I may have sounded overly goal oriented. I have glimpsed a snippet of light, and it was beautiful. I'll put it like this, small steps. I hope that it will find me again.

    Last question, I think the one that will help me move forward: I know relaxation is key to get things started. But during the wild ride, should I still consciously try to keep my body relaxed, limp, so to speak, or is tensing up completely during the wild ride just a normal part of the right journey?

    I resolve not to shoot my mouth off in this forum, but hope you'll be around next time I have a question.
  • rumelrumel
    Posts: 2,257
    awakening,

    While there is certainly conscious intent behind learning to relax your muscles, I differentiate this from egocentric control in that you are actually “letting go” of control to allow the muscles to return to their natural, non-tensed state. It is when we direct the action of the muscles for some purpose (e.g. picking up a book, walking or running) we are exercising egocentric control. Certain muscular actions are uncontrolled and involuntary (e.g. heartbeat, respiration, peristalsis), although, to some extent, they too can be altered by thought control. I would include muscle response to orgasm in this latter category, as such I don't attempt to suppress or control the response, but I do use mental intent and deliberate contractions of various muscles at various times to induce the orgasmic response.

    With regard to your exercise of the PC muscles in the soaking tub, I don't think it is problematic at all, on the contrary, I think it is healthy and enjoyable. I probably do a couple of hundred PC contractions throughout the day, almost unconsciously, just because they feel good to do and I know they are good for urological functioning.

    “Last question, I think the one that will help me move forward: I know relaxation is key to get things started. But during the wild ride, should I still consciously try to keep my body relaxed, limp, so to speak, or is tensing up completely during the wild ride just a normal part of the right journey? “ That's a great question. IMHO, It is a good idea to relax as much as possible, but here's the catch, as the body becomes increasingly aroused and the energy level builds, that energy must go somewhere. For those much more advanced than I, they are able to circulate this energy throughout the body, directing it to some extent until they desire to release it in some orgasmic or other form. I find in my body that the energy just naturally starts to create muscular tension in various areas, not always the same areas, but tension nonetheless. I like to use deep breathing exercises to help distribute this energy throughout my body while simultaneously messaging my muscles to relax and let the energy build. When I am able to do this is when I start to experience pleasure waves as that energy has suffused my body. Sometimes this leads to orgasm, sometimes not, but it's always enjoyable.

    P.S. Go ahead and shoot your mouth off, that's what this Forum is for. :lol:
  • awakening
    Posts: 9
    Rumel, Thank you

    I think I understand the difference now between conscious intent and control. In a way it is like shadow-boxing, nudging, dancing with your body's responses, without telling it what to do.

    A good point, "that energy must go somewhere"

    I will try to distribute this energy. What I've noticed is that I progressively tense up completely, from my feet to my neck, but mostly buttocks, that result in the forceful humping motion. This clenching of muscles almost smothers the motion though, [too much tension] and when I realize this and let go, relax, there is a point just before complete relaxation [too little tension, perhaps?] that the motions increase dramatically, involuntarily, before reaching a point where it all subsides. After, quiet, I can sometimes feel my spicnt going lightly through it all, but sometimes I have to start over, though a response comes much quicker.

    I guess in time I will learn the functioning of all this, and how to surf it, to keep things happening without self-destructing in this way.

    What was also remarkable was how a mental or visual image of something intensely arousing suddenly and dramatically increases sensation. Almost as if my prostate is bearing down.
    This is similar I guess to the typical arousal and erectile response to stimuli, but the Aneros allows me to feel things happen inside much more profoundly.
    Likewise imagining continuous orgasm, briefly can trigger the kind of good spine-down tingle that precedes a decent penile ejaculatory orgasm. I am just not yet able to sustain these kinds of focus.

    Another question, for you perhaps, and other guys that have used the Aneros during partner sex, since my wife is coming back from holiday soon:

    Do you just insert it, and continue as per whatever normal intercourse is for you, with the Aneros functioning as a special kind of butt-plug, or does one elicit the involuntaries, and subsequent humping, inside your partner?

    Last question: Does one benefit, in terms of practice [exercise], and progress on this journey, by 'wearing' the Aneros during the day, in normal activity if the situation allows, or is it only for pleasure. Can one substantially progress outside of controlled [meaning calm, relaxed, private, focused] sessions?

    Thanks, all, and happy quivers.
  • Diesel2215
    Posts: 105
    Thanks awakening. You have put into words what I have been trying to ask for a couple of months. I also felt those pleasure waves and tried to relax, but the feeling went away. Thanks to Rumel for the answers.

    Peace

    D
  • gm501
    Posts: 87
    To answer your question about using the Aneros in the tub, I tried that once, and it was good, but the main problem is that the tub is too confining in terms of physical space. For instance, I had trouble inserting and removing, and also I can't stretch my legs out completely in the tub. I just have a standard-size tub -- I imagine a jacuzzi-style tub or even hot tub would work much better.
  • STARR831
    Posts: 69
    Greetings Awakening! Regarding Aneros use with your wife - YES, by all means!!! :D But don't "just insert it." I find my wife gets really turned on by ringing my anus with a generous supply of lube, lubbing up my Aneros AND inserting everything into place. Sometimes I'll anticipate the sequence of events and frost her clitoris with a little warming jel before she slides my Aneros into place, then I can start with a sweet French kiss and slither down to her clitoris without interruption. The process of bringing her to full orgasm also quickly initiates a magnificent series of O waves for me. My soldier is at ease more than at attention these days, making the traditional method of intercourse challenging and very unpredictable. By using an Aneros as described above, my wife never feels left out and we both rejoice at the almost certain results. The range of excitement, sensations and orgasms appear to be increasing the more my wife and Aneros are involved --- and everthing is not focused, as it used to be, on my ability to have a traditional ejaculation. My best to you both!
  • newbie2009newbie2009
    Posts: 267
    awakening said:

    ...
    Another question, for you perhaps, and other guys that have used the Aneros during partner sex, since my wife is coming back from holiday soon:

    Do you just insert it, and continue as per whatever normal intercourse is for you, with the Aneros functioning as a special kind of butt-plug, or does one elicit the involuntaries, and subsequent humping, inside your partner? ...



    I'm trying to 'journey' along a couples path in parallel with my solo sessions.

    In February we bought a Helix, as a sex-toy, to give me an extra p-spot kick during copulation. Intent was to improve my orgasmic experience (over the years, my fleeting orgasms had decreased to less than 3 seconds in length). The Aneros improved orgasmic intensity and added several more expulsive contractions to my ejaculation but didn't change the orgasmic duration. It added sensation to position changes and copulation. Essentially, we were treating it as just another sex toy and, for awhile we had a string tied to the Helix handle for my wife to occasionally tug.

    After a couple of months I started on my 'journey' and started 'listening' to Helixbill, Love_is, Darwin, Arctic Wolves, Pan and artform. I had fallen into a whole new lexicon and it took weeks to just to find the common denominators in their vocabularies. (Everytme I think I've got a handle on that either artform or Pan throws me a new curve.)

    Looking back, I've been in a major attitude and values transition since early June (part of the unwiring that probably preceeds 'rewiring' -- good news is that my spouse seems supportive and hasn't left me yet :D

    Now, I most value the Aneros in place during our foreplay and very simple necking/petting activities. It's like being a teen-ager all over again--suddenly, seemingly small nuisances become new joys. Copulation to ejaculation isn't nearly as important to me as it was before May. Ejaculation tends to dim the 'glow' from our lovemaking. Not ejaculating during actual copulation has gained in importance. The 'glow' then continues until our next encounter. But my greedy spouse values feeling me ejaculate. So, that 'master' must sometimes be served. (Gawd, to be nineteen again!)

    Here's a rather 'mechanical' suggestion .... seal each and every kiss, nuzzle, ear nip, lick and caress with the smallest and briefest of contractions. Remember to breath after each one. Cherish those moments. At first you may not receive anything in return. Later on, enjoy the brief involuntary that answers back to you from your tiny voluntary. Later on, enjoy that involuntary when it becomes more than a single pulse then two, three or five pulses. (that's where I am now -- no clue what might cum next.)

    I'm finding that, in our every day clothed lives, Aneros out, a small sphincter contraction each time I touch her returns an involuntary. This is going somewhere -- just don't know where that might be.

    Write your own book. Treat your foreplay as a chapter, each position as paragraph, each approach as a sentence and each caress as a phrase. Add punctuation with the Aneros. Remember to breath.

    Hope this contributes in some small way.
  • awakening
    Posts: 9
    Diesel, gm, STARR, and Newbie, thanks for weighing in.

    "Looking back, I've been in a major attitude and values transition"

    Too true. This opens a whole new approach to, well, to almost everything. Amazing, both to what extent we are sexual beings, and how big an influence it can have on our lives. This makes me want to take a second look at all those ancient Eastern life principles.

    "seal each and every kiss, nuzzle, ear nip, lick and caress with the smallest and briefest of contractions"

    This is a great suggestion, and surely an amazingly effective sub-part of the rewiring process, pavlovian almost, associative conditioning to involve the idea, as well as presence, of one's partner in the whole new process.

    A very helpful post, thanks, newbie. Also STARR, that sounds like a great way to share this experience with a spouse. Please report back when you experience new things. I take it, though, that you don't let the Aneros-induced quaking be the only propellant in bringing your wife to orgasm? That would seem like an difficult thing to achieve, and may be frustrating for her.

    "also I can't stretch my legs out completely in the tub"
    gm, do you stretch your legs out when in a session elsewhere, like on a bed also? In that case I can see how a smaller tub would be a problem.
    I think the benefit of warm water to aid in relaxation would be noticeable, but it'll have to be a hot-tub, so as not to chill during the session and defeat the purpose. And of course the splashing...

    Sure thing Diesel, it is difficult trying to describe things that are so new and so foreign to what one was accustomed to. A whole new lingo, as evidenced by this forum. Please let us know if you find a way to surf that middle ground. I will try rumel's suggestion of letting the muscles take their course, but try to distribute it through breathing. I think it is harder than it sounds. But thats a key point, I think, not to force the relaxation either, we now know this is counter-productive. Like Newbie says, just remember to breathe.

    Sitting in my office chair with a mild pulsing going, I realize that I'm breathing very shallow. And breathing 'into' one's lower abdomen also helps not only to focus energy in the lower abdomen region, it also tends to help relax the clamping muscle tension.
  • awakening
    Posts: 9
    Two more things: Newbie, you mention 'listening' to the expert users. It will be a great help if you can point to some of the posts you found most valuable, if you can remember, or have bookmarked them.
    I am not lazy, believe me, but there is a lot to read in here.

    Then another observation. The last two ejaculations, 'finishing off' sessions [I know, I know...] delivered semen that had a subtle but distinctly different smell . Hard to describe, but the closest association I have is with the rich, life-smell present when mammals give birth...

    Any bells? I theorize this is part of the cleansing process of my prostate, or perhaps this is what it should normally be?
  • gm501
    Posts: 87
    Yes, I do stretch my legs out all the way when I orgasm. (Can't help it.)

    I wish I had a larger tub to use. Sigh....
  • iamrandy
    Posts: 3
    I too am a new member here and just had my first experience. This is an amazing thread and after being a short time lurker here, I can see that there is a direct correlation to Aneros and IQ. This is a very smart room. I look forward to reading more and enjoying the journey and it looks like I am in great company.
  • newbie2009newbie2009
    Posts: 267
    awakening said:

    ... 'listening' to the expert users. It will be a great help if you can point to some of the posts you found most valuable, if you can remember, or have bookmarked them.
    I am not lazy, believe me, but there is a lot to read in here. ...



    I sometimes screen scrape tidbits meaningful to me. , you nudged me to look through them yesterday. I felt they were sufficiently separated from context to be near meaningless to someone else or, worse yet, subject to inferences that would alter their intent.

    Here's what seems to work for me and might save some time:
    a. When you find a term or thought that 'resonates' with you, open that guy's (or gal's) "profile" and click on 'view all posts' That will save you from sorting through long threads. First focus on posters that have very low post frequencies -- those well below one-per-day. Then try a forum or blog search for the same term and exploit other posters.
    b. When you find a term/thought that is foreign to you, search the Wiki and check the Glossary; then do a forum or blog search. If something gets into the intricacies of Tao or another discipline then it's "DAGS time."

    I'm finding very meaningful info that dates back to 2005 and 2006. (The, "We stand on the shoulders of giants" theory.)

    Last month there was a surge of interest in creating a 'stickey' or secondary archive for "Golden Nuggets." I think the cooler heads are still looking at that suggestion. BF, Rumel, Darwin and other experts seem to have a good grasp on principles of knowledge management (KM). I think they'll do well on this.

    Hang in there. Cherish the journey!
  • awakening
    Posts: 9
    Thanks newbie, I am new at this forum, any forum for that matter. Your tips will certainly help a lot to narrow it down.

    Golden nuggets will be helpful also, but I guess that many of those are already in the Wiki. Plus, you've got one too: Remember to Breathe.

    I find myself re-reading your thoughts on couple play, and it really is valuable. Thanks again.

    Welcome, randy, I enjoy this discussion also, but I may have to disagree on IQ and the ability to appreciate the Aneros. I think since this is such a physical and in a way instinctively sensual response most men, in theory, would be able to appreciate it. We all have the same bits. That said, the mind is clearly a huge participant in this, though I don't think that that is a function of intelligence, except if the ability to let go of the conscious ego, and the open-mindedness required is actually based in intelligence. I'm not so sure.

    But you raise an interesting topic. I know that sometimes examples in the animal world is invoked as a counter to the "homosexuality is unnatural" argument. Also observed is anal coupling and transgender behaviour. Personally I don't think it is necessary to justify a sexual preference, but now I start to wonder if this kind of prostate orgasm, or anything remotely resembling it, has ever been observed in the animal world. Or does it really require an enlightened mind, and though fundamentally physical, really is of a higher order rather than a base bodily function.

    On the point of bodily functions and this energy idea: Ever had the thing when...how shall I say...(let's go colloquial): taking a dump, and had that tingle running from the back of the scalp into the shoulders and down the spine?

    Last night, with Aneros in, I was holding a steady light contraction, all the subtle quivers going on when I felt a hint of that same spine tingle, which was pleasurable. I then realized it is possible somehow to generate that tingle, by pulling the back of your scalp taut (tricky) and some focus. And the tingle down the spine connects with the tingle happening below, and feels great.

    This is just an observation, but what it taught me is that unknown to me I already have the ability to initiate nerve-related events in other parts of my body also, and since this one is familiar in 'normal' life, unlike so many of the new feelings one experiences with Aneros, it may be a doorway into what rumel mentioned above, being able to control the flow of energy throughout the entire body.

    Like newbie said so succinctly, this is going somewhere, but I'm not sure where that might be.