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Automatic tantra?
  • zanebluezaneblue
    Posts: 224
    I found out today that I'm way beyond tantric. I thought the tantra people were doing what I'm doing but they aren't--I talked with someone who's gone to all the workshops, etc. He had no idea what I was talking about.

    Where do I go to meet men who are really handy with Super-O orgasms, so much so that kundalini rising has been triggered? I'm having intense heart chakra orgasms--along with dozens of female Super-O orgasms just from flexing my PC muscles every day. I want to find someone advanced enough in tantra to be able to feel what I feel. Having regular sex, while certainly fun, isn't very satisfying. Help me please.
  • PanPan
    Posts: 249
    (this post was edited 2005-06-12 01:43:10)

    (this post was edited 2005-06-12 01:41:07)

    Interesting question. Unfortunately, I'm not sure there's an easy answer. I've spent a fair amount of time looking into Tantra over the years, and my conclusion has always been that (the way it's taught in the States anyway) it's far more effective for women than it is for men.

    To date, I only know one man personally who has truly learned to have multiple orgasms through Tantra practice, and he had a great deal of personal instruction from a famous Tantric author and instructor.

    Most men I know who have bought books, videos, and attended classes in either Tantra or Taoist methods always say they can't even make the infamous PC exercises work for them to achieve multiples, much less begin to access the kundalini energy.

    Personally, I gave up on the PC methods after years of sincere effort. What finally worked for me was a technique called KSMO or Key Sound Multiple Orgasm ( It's totally unique in that it works through heightened arousal and relaxation rather than PC control.

    I had my first multi-orgasmic experience within 3 weeks of practice (7 orgasms in a row and no ejaculation). And after 5 years of practice, I can say in all honesty I regularly enjoy everything you just described (plus a few things you didn't mention).

    I've been a volunteer coach at the KSMO website for a few years now, and I've watched quite a few men go from average lovers to multi-orgasmic superstuds in just a few weeks. So I know they're out there. I talk to them on a regular basis. But unfortunately, KSMO is currently only taught online. There aren't any KSMO weekend retreats in Maui...yet. So, I'm not sure how you could go about meeting a practitioner face to face.

    My best advice would be this:

    Check out the website, and consider trying KSMO for yourself (yep, the same technique works for women too!). The audio seminar only costs $30 and comes with free, unlimited access to the KSMO Forum, and Coaching Chats, as well as advice from volunteer coaches like myself. That way, you can get to know the process men go through in learning to become multi-orgasmic by reading their experiences and asking them questions.

    [Actually, you can still read the posts and chats for free anyway, but to learn the technique and post questions or attend live coaching chats, you need to purchase the seminar.]

    I know, you obviously don't need any help in the pleasure department! But, keeping in mind how rarely Tantra works for men, wouldn't it be great if you knew an alternative technique that actually DOES help men enjoy multiple orgasms and could share that with your next lover?

    All in all, I'd say your chances of finding a man already capable of Beyond Tantric Orgasms is pretty small. Sadly, it's not a mainstream ability...yet. You can always cruise those Tantra retreats, and you might get lucky. But I think your best chance of finding a compatible partner is to first set your sights on finding a man who's emotionally healthy, easy going, and mentally open to trying new things and of course wants to be multi-orgasmic, then offer to show him what you've learned.

    When I started out trying to become multi-orgasmic, my wife had no interest in learning new sexual techniques. So I taught myself KSMO through solo practice. Once I was multi-orgasmic, I didn't tell her to change what she was doing in bed to match my new skills, I simply shared the new feelings I had discovered and she naturally responded to them. Within a few weeks, she was enjoying new kinds of orgasmic pleasure as well, just by being receptive to the new pleasures I was feeling. Our lovemaking was totally transformed into something beautiful and magical, without ever having to make a conscious effort.

    I think if you find the right guy, even if he's not a super stud when you meet him, he may just become one simply by being open to new experiences, and following your lead. In the meantime, learning more about the journey men go through in becoming multi-orgasmic can help you become aware of how best to assist him along the way.

  • zanebluezaneblue
    Posts: 224
    Thank you. I don't need to learn key sound myself--God, as it is I'm trying to blow through my chi by having multiple ejaculation orgasms every day to knock it down.

    I don't think American tantric practice works all that well for women either. My diet works a lot better, a lot, and a lot faster too. I've had women become spontaneously vaginally orgasmic who weren't even able to have a regular vaginal orgasm during sex within a matter of months. And I'm like a superfreak.

    I guess what I really want to know if there are men out there who can feel the transfer of chi energy from a woman's to a man's heart chakra, just like I can now feel the chi energy transfer from a man's ejaculation. Thank you for pointing me in the right direction.

    I strongly suspect the Aneros will help this along, just like the PC muscle exercise on my diet using the Gyneflex is a key part of triggering kundalini awakening. Thank you for confirming that I shouldn't waste my time looking in "tantric" places.
  • PanPan
    Posts: 249
    (this post was edited 2005-06-13 13:08:45)

    Well, I can certainly confirm that men are fully capable of enjoying Heart Chakra orgasms, full body orgasms, and all kinds of other \"Kundalini\" stuff as well! In fact, when it comes to sexual energy and all the ways it can be expressed, I'd say that men and women are virtually identical. It's just that, for obvious reasons, men often have more difficulty becoming multi-orgasmic to begin with. I think of it as learning to achieve flight. Once in the air, both men and women have the same degree of freedom and expression, but most men simply never get off the ground.

    The traditional methods all seem convinced that PC control is the best (and many say only) way to seperate orgasm from ejaculation. I think that's the main obstacle for men these days. It's almost like a massive campaign of misinformation that's lasted for centuries. Supposedly, any guy should become a multi-orgasmic superstud after enough PC flexes. With common access to the Internet and endless books on the subject, it seems every guy has heard this, and yet no one seems able to demonstrate it.

    My experience with KSMO has convinced me that the true key to becoming multi-orgasmic for either gender is relaxation and heightened arousal, not muscle control. Ask any guy who's taken the drug Ecstasy, with enough endorphins in the brain, anything and everything feels orgasmic - without ejaculation and without super-strong PC muscles. That's why some folks call it \"Tantra in a pill.\"

    Ecstasy clearly demonstrates that orgasm occurs in the brain, and not the genitals. So the root of orgasmic sensation is clearly arousal and not physical stimulation. Why then, do all the traditional methods like Tantra tell men the road to MMO's begins with their genitals?

    With sufficent arousal, you can naturally create an effect identical to the drug Ecstasy, including full body, multiple orgasms even without erection or direct physical stimulation. The trick with men is learning to remain completely relaxed while arousal continues to increase. By doing so, the body never prepares for ejaculation, thus there's no feeling of holding back. The result is an ability to enjoy all the pleasure and orgasms you want, without having to maintain constant control of your body.

    Ironically, it's the fact that so many men are busy trying to control their PC muscles, and hold back their ejaculation, that they rarely experience deeper levels of orgasm or are able to share that Kundalini energy with a partner. It's like trying to juggle with one hand and give a sensual massage with the other! It simply doesn't work.

    The only way it works for most men is by learning how to let go. The paradox of seperating orgasm from ejaculation is that you gain control by giving up control. Learning to relax through intense pleasure is a far more effective way of bypassing the ejaculation reflex than muscle control. One is like surfing, the other is like trying to hold back a dam that's about to burst. Which sounds easier and more enjoyable?

    As for whether the Aneros can help men to awaken the Kundalini, I really don't know. I was already multi-orgasmic when I began using my Aneros, so I'm not qualified to say what the Aneros alone can do for expanding one's experience of energetic orgasm. I hope someone else might want to step in here and comment on that...


  • BusterBuster
    Posts: 953
    Hi Pan,

    That was good. Thanks for sharing it with us. It certainly made me think about what I am doing. Maybe it will help some of the new guys as well. I sure hope I can get to your level.

    To The Journey!

  • PanPan
    Posts: 249
    Hey Buster,

    You're very welcome of course! I spend a fair amount of my free time talking about this stuff because I want guys (and their partners) to know they have alternatives if they can't make the PC methods work for them.

    I spent years feeling depressed, frustrated, and jealous simply because I wasn't happy with the one-shot ejaculatory orgasm. And sadly, many of my relationships suffered because I hadn't learned how to deal with those feelings in a constructive manner. Worst of all, I thought tons of guys out there were enjoying multiples with the PC methods and I just wasn't getting it.

    Any time I can help someone avoid what I put myself through in those first few years, it makes me feel better about how I started my own journey to MMO.

    And as for reaching my level, I'm certain you (and just about anyone else) can. I'm really nothing special. In fact, when I first started learning KSMO, I was an out of shape, pack-a-day smoker, and still recovering from an old spine injury while on tons of medications.

    So I can say from experience, you don't have to be super healthy or especially skilled in order to become multi-orgasmic. It just takes a positive attitude, an open heart and mind, and the right technique (or partner) to guide you there. After that, it's a totally natural expression of what's already inside you.

    All these techniques people sell as books, videos, and classes, are really just training wheels for something we're all born able to do. Techniques are just reminders for how to do it naturally!

  • B MayfieldB Mayfield
    Posts: 2,140

    As always your comments are insightful and thought provoking. I thought I'd chime in here as well. I've previously commented on my own experiences with Jack Johnson's Key Sound method, and I wanted to recap.

    Although I never experienced the type of success with it that you have, it was indeed a terrific resource for me in gaining a deeper understanding of my own body and mind. In particular, his use of breathing and mental focus were very illuminating. Jack is a great educator who is dedicated to expanding people's awareness of themselves. He's also a nice guy!

    I think at one time I termed his Key Sound technique as a breadth requirement or was it a ..breath requirement in one's education and pursuit of the Super O. Whatever the case, I strongly recommend it to everyone!

    In the end the method that proved successful for me however, was a synthesis of several techniques that I happened upon while engaged in this sensual journey of mine. For me it's about mental focus, breath control, subtle PC contractions and yes, AROUSAL. You have this one absolutely right....AROUSAL TRUMPS ALL! Generating it, magnifying it, sustaining it....that's the trick. I encourage everyone in this forum to explore, experiment (excluding any artificial means) and be open to change.

    BF Mayfield
  • zanebluezaneblue
    Posts: 224
    Arrrgggghhhh! Then it is the same for men and women.

    Okay, please listen. I KNOW this stuff. In women, the ability for spontaneous vaginal orgasms--the equivalent of Super-O's is dependent on three things: dopamine vs. serotonin in the brain, free testosterone and PC muscle strength. You don't need superhuman PC muscles to get the ability, but a baseline is nice.

    Now it used to be that men especially didn't have to worry about dopamine (and they still don't have to worry much about free testosterone, at least not as much as women). Dopamine is enhanced by omega-3 fatty acids, and it used to be that omega-3 fatty acids were common in most protein sources--wild game, seafood, etc. Even free-range cows and chickens are high in omega-3 fatty acids. However, grain-fed beef and chicken have no omega-3 fatty acids. So people eating a typical American or Canadian diet have very low omega-3 fatty acid levels (which explains the explosion in use of antidepressants). I have Medline references galore showing the effect of fish oil on dopamine levels.

    Yes, meditation and deep breathing can raise dopamine levels too, but it's a lot harder to do it this way. Taking mega-doses of fish oil, which simply restores the natural healthy omega-3 fatty acid balance in the body that we evolved to have--that's the easy way.

    So see that's why there used to be such a stress on PC muscles, because five hundred years ago the other stuff would have been in the right balance. But if your dopamine is low, you can have strong PC muscles and stop ejaculating and it still won't bring on a Super-O, just like women can exercise their PC muscles all they like and they will never have a vaginal orgasm until their brain chemistry is in balance.

    I'm laughing at myself--criteria for new boyfriend: must be willing to go on high-dose fish oil diet, must be willing to get odd-looking sex toy and put it up his ass, must be willing to meditate making funny noises, must have high libido to keep up. Hmmmm...not the sort of thing one can put in a personals ad. LOL
  • zanebluezaneblue
    Posts: 224
    Wait, you developed the ability to have heart chakra orgasms while you smoking a pack a day! Hm. Do you mind if I ask what other medications you were on at the time? Pain relievers maybe, something that raised dopamine levels?

    The reason is I get some women on my diet who are smokers, and it's lots harder to be vaginally orgasmic when you smoke and/or drink lots of caffeine. Anything that raises serotonin levels more than dopamine levels generally kills the ability (just like most antidepressants, except for Wellbutrin that raises both).
  • PanPan
    Posts: 249

    I'm laughing at myself--criteria for new boyfriend: must be willing to go on high-dose fish oil diet, must be willing to get odd-looking sex toy and put it up his ass, must be willing to meditate making funny noises, must have high libido to keep up. Hmmmm...not the sort of thing one can put in a personals ad. LOL

    LOL! Wow, when you put it THAT way it does sound complicated...


    Those were some great comments guys! Zane, I think you've finally answered a question that has plagued me for years! Why don't PC squeezes produce orgasms in men like they're supposed to?

    Low Dopamine levels! Yes! That makes perfect sense to me! Gawd, that explains so much...

    Also, I thought I once heard somewhere that being significantly overweight reduces free testosterone in men? Does that sound accurate?

    Of course, I still think the entire concept of using PC muscles for ejaculation control is basically flawed, but that's just my opinion.

    Regarding my situtation when I began learning KSMO, I had been suffering from fairly intense chronic nerve pain for about 7 years and was prescribed: Buprinorphine (powerful opiate painkiller), Neurontin (a nervine), Zanaflex (muscle relaxer), Baclofen (spinal muscle relaxer), and Zofran (anti-naseau). There were others as well, but those were my primary daily meds. As far as I know, none of them significantly affect serotonin or dopamine levels. But I expect you'll be able to answer that better than I can!

    However, and this is the really interesting part, within 3 months of becoming multi-orgasmic, I was no longer taking the Burpinorphine and had cut my dosage of the other medications down to half or less. Within 8 months, I was no longer using any medications and overall my pain was down to about 30% of what it had been consistantly for the past 7 years.

    I always remember the day I told my neurologist I was going off the pills for good. She told me that with my condition, I would probably always need some medications in order to function properly. That was 5 years ago. I haven't taken a drug since that day, I stopped smoking, I'm in decent shape again, and I generally have very little pain. I can honestly say, I don't think I would have recovered nearly as quickly or completely without my KSMO practice.

    I must say though, I did continue to be a pack-a-day smoker for another 4 years after I stopped taking any medications. And yet, in that time my practice seemed to develop by leaps and bounds. I had my first Heartgasm (as we call them in KSMO) about 6 months after I started practicing. This is why I'm inclined to believe that a healthy emotional state and a positive attitutde towards life are far more important than age or physical condition. Not that good health isn't also important. I just think that mind over matter applies to orgasms as much as anything!
  • PanPan
    Posts: 249

    I'm so glad you decided to jump in here! I've always wanted to ask you, was there a particular aspect of KSMO that you found either difficult or ineffective for you? And would you please tell us more about the synthesis of techniques you found to be beneficial?
  • zanebluezaneblue
    Posts: 224
    (this post was edited 2005-06-14 17:23:14)

    Fascinating. Buprenorphine absolutely cranks up dopamine--it's an opiate. That's what opiates do. Neurotin and Zanaflex are dopamine-neutral. Baclofen actually decreases dopamine, I'm assuming not enough to kill the opiate effect of the buprenorphine. Dopamine is a painkiller. Interestingly, Zofran decreases serotonin. It is my firm belief that high dopamine relative to moderate serotonin levels is really the key. The Zofran might have had enough punch to keep the serotonin from smoking low too (smoking also raises dopamine).

    That's why I believe from reading these posts that for example the guy on poppers had Super-O's on first use of the Aneros. Not that I'm recommending poppers. If my theory holds true, non-Americans and non-Canadians would have better luck reaching Super-O's because North American beef and poultry are deficient in omega-3 fatty acids because we feed our livestock grain instead of their regular range diet.

    Overweight does cause low free testosterone in men. So does a low-fat vegetarian diet. Don't get me started on hormone talk, I'll go all night, lol.

    Orgasms also boost dopamine levels. Giving yourself frequent orgasms is causing your body's natural dopamine to rise, acting as a painkiller. I can't tell you how fascinating the cigarette thing is to me. I suppose it's because men have naturally higher levels of dopamine than women--they don't have as far to go.

    I think once you know the way to a Super-O, it's easier to get there, even if the brain chemistry isn't perfect. I know it's that way with spontaneous vaginal orgasms. My first one took about an hour of intense fantasy, with the extra stimulation of the vibrations from driving a car. Now I can have a spontaneous vaginal orgasms from a few seconds of flexing.

    I've had a couple men handy with the Aneros take high-dose fish oil with wild results, that's why I've been posting here. So far here no one has reported back, at least I don't think. I am very curious.

    I agree with you about the ejaculation denial thing. Within reason, of course. I think if a guy is ejaculating three times a day he's going to find it hard to get aroused enough to benefit from the Aneros or from KSMO Super-O practice. But I personally don't think the PC muscles need to be used to stop ejaculation. I do believe strong PC muscles are necessary for a man to have the Super-O ability, and I believe that's the reason it takes some men several months using the Aneros--they are simply building up muscle tone down there by flexing.

    Also, yes mind over matter does work within limits. For example, a person can slow down their heartrate by meditation and breathing techniques. On the other hand a person can also slow down their heartrate by becoming aerobically fit. Combine the two and you have the optimal effect. That's why I think taking high-dose fish oil used in tandem with the KSMO and/or relaxation techniques used with the Aneros would have very effective and fast results.

    One other thing--in traditional tantric practice men are encouraged to do male Kegels. I work with women on developing PC muscle tone, and Kegels are about as effective in building muscle as flexing your arm is effective in building bicep muscles. To put on bicep muscle efficiently you need resistance--same thing with PC muscles. The Gyneflex is a great PC muscle resistance device for women. It looks like the Aneros also offers some resistance--it uses positive biofeedback to encourage flexing the thing against the prostate--I'm assuming the prostate offers resistance. Is there also any flexing of the Aneros itself, or does the device remain rigid?
  • PanPan
    Posts: 249
    Ok, I'm feeling a silly here for having not already known that opiates ramp up dopamine levels. But it all makes a lot more sense to me now, how KSMO practice allowed me to drop the meds so easily and reduce my pain at the same time. I'm certainly learning a lot in this exchange! Thanks Zane!

    As for the smoking issues, looking back, the only significant difference I've noticed in my practice from when I was a smoker to now is the increased lung capacity. Of course, that by itself offers a pretty nice boost in pleasure during a session!

    I definitely agree that once you begin having Super-O's or MMO's or similiar orgasmic experiences, they become easier to access afterwards. I really like B Mayfield's description of "re-wiring." It's like once you have it, it's always with you.

    About the PC flexing involved with the Aneros, whether the prostate provides resistance to the Aneros? I'm just not sure. I've never actually felt my prostate with my fingers, so I don't really know how much "give" it has against applied pressure. It always seems as if the slightest movement from the Aneros is sufficient to produce major responses. I'm guessing that means very little pressure is actually applied, so not much resistance is involved? I can say that the Aneros itself is almost totally inflexible. It's made from very hard plastic.

    On a side note, by any chance are you familiar with brainwave entrainment products and how they affect serotonin and dopamine levels? I've been using an audio CD called Ecstasy from for years now. It's actually designed to increase endorphin levels over time with regular use. It's really an amazing product. I just listen to it for a few days in a row, and I find my libido and all my erotic activities are enhanced.

    I've been so fascinated by this program, I'm currently experimenting with software and attempting to make my own versions of the Ecstasy Cd. So far, it's not quite the same, but I'm getting closer...
  • zanebluezaneblue
    Posts: 224
    I checked out the site. The concept sounds great, but I really get irritated listening to relaxation tapes with someone bossing me around. LOL I listened to the demo. I'm quite competent at hypnotizing myself, thank you very much. Is it possible to get the music without the voiceover? I think the concept of entering a theta state that way is a nifty one.
  • BusterBuster
    Posts: 953
    Zane, Pan & Mr. Mayfield,

    I have been fascinated in what you have been saying, but I have a question. Can someone get themselves into this altered state simply by applying basic meditation techniques? I have never worked on that, but I keep thinking about it while I am reading your posts. I have a book on meditation that I can become more familiar with.

    Thanks all,

  • zanebluezaneblue
    Posts: 224
    Yes and no. There's a mind/body interaction. Yes, simple meditation and relaxation can raise dopamine levels but it's helpful to have good body chemistry too. For example, if you drank a big pot of strong coffee right before you tried to meditate, it probably wouldn't work very well.
  • PanPan
    Posts: 249

    Yeah I hear ya. When it comes to hypnosis audios and guided meditations, I'm extremely picky about voices. That's why I prefer self-hypnosis as well.

    The cool thing about the Ecstasy Cd is it's just music with a technology called Binaural Beats implanted into the background. Binaural Beats help create a pattern that your brainwaves will attune to over a period of a few minutes. They just sound like a faint humming noise in the background.

    There's no voices at all in the program. And actually, I've always thought the music was quite beautiful. After 6 years, I still enjoy listening to it. It's supposedly based on Traditional Tantric rhythms or something. It's just a lovely new age piece. So far, every friend I know who's listened to it agreed that it's very easy on the ears.

    Buster, you might really like this part - the program doesn't require any focus or concentration to work. Simply lie down, close your eyes, maybe allow your imagination to drift towards something arousing, and the Cd does the rest for you! It's a great way to enjoy an altered state without any effort.

    Another excellent way to use this Cd is as a form of self-hypnosis using visualization. It creates an Alpha-Theta state, which is ideal for entering a highly suggestible frame of mind. Let's say you're a guy who had one Super-O about 3 months ago and haven't been able to re-create the experience since. You can use this Cd to re-create the Super-O experience in your mind in vivid detail, as if it's happening to you once again. By continuing to do this every day for a few weeks, you're sending a powerful hypnotic message to your subsconscious. By convincing yourself that you are fully capable of having Super-O's, your subconscious will actually produce those results.

    Another really fun use for this Cd is as a kind of erotic vacation program. Because an Alpha-Theta state increases endorphin levels and at the same, enhances our ability to imagine things in vivid detail, it's a great way to supercharge your fantasy life.

    I guess I might as well also mention another use I have for this Cd, which is to help me do something called Amygdala Clicking. Amygdala Clicking or Clicking Forward as it's also called, is one of the most amazing practices I've ever come across. I've only been doing it for a little over a year and it's already become a truly life-changing experience. At the same, it's incredibly easy to learn and do.

    You can learn it for free at this website:

    Although I highly recommend buying the book "Frontal Lobes Supercharge" for a clearer understanding of how to do it and why you would want to.

    But I think everyone will find the following link especially interesting:

    I can personally attest that what he's saying is true. Clicking Forward can produce MMO's, even if you're just sitting around watching TV, with your clothes on!

    Amygdala Clicking is such a huge topic, that it really deserves a thread of its own. So I'll stop here and allow for comments if anyone has them. But I thought I should mention that I've found each of these things:

    The Aneros, KSMO, Amygdala Clicking, and Brainwave Entrainment to compliment and greatly enhance the others in pursuit of MMO's.

    The Aneros often makes my KSMO sessions more powerful and pleasurable the next day. The Key Sound greatly enhances my ability to experience and enjoy the Super-O during my Aneros sessions. Listening to the Ecstasy Cd regularly, enhances them both. And I use Amygdala Clicking to greatly enhance the other three!

    My experience has taught me that each of these things seperately is a wonderful way of enjoying great pleasures. But learning to combine them (which is surprisingly easy to do) not only enhances the total experience, but it also helps improve my chances of achieving bliss each time I'm seeking it.

    If one way isn't quite working for whatever reason, I can use another to help boost the experience and achieve the results I'm looking for. To me, finding new ways of enjoying pleasure that compliment each other without conflicting has been incredibly effective (and fun!).

    And on that note, I'm looking forward to trying Zane's diet soon. Because I wouldn't be surprised if that ended up becoming the latest addition to my ever-growing list of ways to enjoy MMO!
  • zanebluezaneblue
    Posts: 224
    I'm reading a book called The Tipping Point--it's been very interesting--talks about how ideas are spread. From what I've read, I classify as a "Maven" and it seems like you do too. We both love to acquire and share information. The Ecstasy CD sounds like just the thing I'd enjoy tremendously, thank you. Will check out the clicking website too.

    And if anyone wants to know about hormone replacement therapy in the treatment of female sexual dysfunction, or good herbals to try, or the best sex toys or whatnot, I'm very good at thread drift--LOL
  • B MayfieldB Mayfield
    Posts: 2,140

    So much info. passed over the last several days, just got an opportunity to chime in so here it is. Pan, I assume the Ecstasy CD you're referring to is the one by Kelly Howell? If so, I've used it myself and found it a wonderful source of aural arousal . If one is opposed to viewing erotica (too prurient for ya) this can be a great substitute. I've also used both of them simultaneously and found that it really got things moving...energetically speaking.

    In terms of Zane Blue's much heralded fish oil diet, although my results seemed promising at first (placebo effect), I would have state that thus far they've been fairly inconclusive. That having been said, I am aware that all of this may be affected by the type of fish oil that one consumes. That's right, (as Zane will surely tell you) they're not all the same. Quality varies, as does the all-important EPA to DHA ratio. For purposes, of supplementation such as is being discussed here, pharmaceutical grade oil is the only thing that should be considered. Of course pharmaceutical grade has become a relative term too, as it seems that everybody's using it to sell product these days. (The term was originally intended to indicate quality and purity (the product would contain a precise amounts ingredients with no (or almost infinitesimal quantities) of contaminants (heavy metals, PCB, Dioxin etc... the usual bad guys).

    Although I'm fairly confident of it's purity (IFOS stats) the product that I've been using since last September only has a 1.6 : 1 EPA/DHA ratio. The ZONE product (SEARS) that Zane had linked on her site, has a 2: 1 ratio, which may be a factor in this working. But this brings up another issue, which has raged, about naturally occurring vs. engineered. That is, to achieve this ratio of higher EPA to DHA , the manufacturer will process the oil, creating an ethyl ester, which some have suggested is not the most bio-available form......and so it goes. Lots of stuff to digest lol.

    In any event, the manufacturers of the oil that I've been using have just started producing a product with a 3:1 ratio. Yes it has been esterified, but once they achieve the more concentrated mixture, they process it once more, back to the bio-available form. We'll see. I should mention that I've noticed numerous other health benefits from the use of this oil (for myself and my family) that have nothing to do with elevating the sexual response. I would strongly recommend the consumption of fish oil for these reasons alone. Again, as far as this sexual component goes.... let’s put it this way, definitely makes sense on paper...but it hasn't happened for me yet. I'm still checking this one out. I’ll keep you posted.

    In general terms, I see supplementation within the context of optimizing sexual response as opposed to actually creating it. So, facilitating or enhancing… I’m all for. However, I must admit that I’m a bit uncomfortable with the notion of reducing ALL of this down to the level of manipulating my chemistry. For me, that diminishes the experience in some ways. It’s just not the ZEN thing to do…ya know? I guess I enjoy the mystery of it all too.

    Pan, you had asked about my experience with KSMO. First, I would have to say in practical terms that I sometimes found it difficult to find a venue for practicing this technique. That is, there really isn't any way to do this quietly :) But seriously. The Key sound technique, offered me some amazing glimpses of what I had to look forward to. I was dedicated to it for about 3 months during which time I never had the cross-over experience........yes, with all that I've said in this forum about being patient....well I wasn't there at that point I moved on to the Aneros. As luck would have it...I crossed-over the very first time I used it (then lost the ability thereafter for several months...this where I learned about patience...:(

    As I've said in the past I believe that there are many different paths to the Super O. I’ve encouraged everybody to be open to this. In many ways it’s like one of those maze puzzles that lead you on a circuitous path. I’m doubtful that there is any straight line there that will work for everybody. However, with help of people like you and Zane and some of the other advanced users in the forum out there, perhaps we can streamline it a bit.

    Great thread you two!

    BF Mayfield

  • zanebluezaneblue
    Posts: 224
    (this post was edited 2005-06-16 12:45:11)

    No, actually higher DHA helps the libido thing--as long as you were getting 800 mg or more of DHA per day and also EPA, that should have done it. Fascinating that it didn't work for you. I loosely define "pharmaceutical-grade" as having >500 mg of EPA+DHA in one one-gram pill. Women it sometimes takes a month, but men respond faster.

    Well when I'm wrong, I'm wrong. I wonder why I'm wrong. Now I want to ask you questions about stimulant intake and antidepressant usage, lol. Don't mind me.

    Fish oil on its own certainly won't bring on Super-O's. Women on my diet don't develop vaginal orgasmic ability until they start exercising the PC muscles with resistance training--the only thing the fish oil on its own does is increase libido and ease of clitoral orgasms (which is actually nothing to sneeze at). But you are already the expert on using the Aneros so you already had that part in place.

    Thank you so much for the feedback, and thank you for trying it.

    I will say that I am certain that robust dopamine levels in relation to serotonin levels are a baseline for Super-O achievement, no matter what path or technique is followed. Brain chemistry on its own won't bring the ability--but it certainly helps.
  • zanebluezaneblue
    Posts: 224
    Whoa!!! That brain-clicking thing--it's the sixth chakra! THANK YOU!

    Now, if my theory is correct, that "brain-clicking" comes easier to men, just like heart chakra orgasms come easier to women.

    Thank you Pan. Gosh I hope the fish oil works for you, want to give something back to you in return. :)
  • B MayfieldB Mayfield
    Posts: 2,140

    With respect to the fish oil, I wouldn't say you're wrong at all. It's just as likely that I'm the wrong person to test it. It's possible that my dopamine levels are high as is, so the effect is less noticeable with me. It takes very little to get me going these days...there are some thoughts that can do it!

    I forgot to address a point that you made about PC contractions. You had stated that you believed that men must have strong PC muscles to experience the Super O. I maintain that toned PC muscles are what one is looking for to tune in the Super O. There may be a time for stronger contractions (particularly when one is peaking), but by in large the heavy lifting is done in the subtle to moderate range. What were talking about is a PC conditioned for responsiveness. I've had some sessions where I've maintained a powerful contraction throughout, but these are the exception not the rule. Most often generating the Super O is about using contractions in a harmonic way....finding a wave and working in phase with it to achieve greater magnitude and the the cascade beyond.

    Forgive me, but I just have to ask it,... do you ever put your PC strength to use during intercourse? If so, to what result..for you and your partners. Do you experience this deeper orgasm while engaged with a partner or is it normally produced flying solo?

    BF Mayfield

  • zanebluezaneblue
    Posts: 224
    Yeee Haaaw! Thank you Pan! Just had my first two sixth chakra orgasms. I did the clicking thing, and it was nice and all, but not really what I was looking for. Then I thought--I'm a girl, I bet it's backwards. And it was. Was the strangest feeling, felt like my forebrain was a pussy--my third eye the opening. And I felt it push deep back to my amygdala, stimulating my reptile brain, going backwards the way he says not to do. But I'm female--it totally worked. I came like gangbusters. Twice. Going to do it some more.

    Buster, I don't have to clench hard to have a spontaneous vaginal orgasm. Lighter contractions work better. But I have to have the strong muscle tone to be able to clench hard to have the ability to have vaginal orgasms, if that makes any sense. I'm just not using the muscles at their full ability to orgasm.

    I can milk a man to orgasm just using my pussy muscles, and keep coming every thirty seconds or so the entire time I'm doing it. It makes sex supercalifragilisticexpialidocious! That said, I know I'm not as tight as a seventeen-year-old virgin--my opening is blown out from two vaginal births and even up further inside it's not as tight as before I had kids. But I am prehensile down there, which is a lot of fun. While I am sure the vaginal orgasms correspond to Super-O's, I think they feel more natural to women and come easier, just like penile orgasms come easy to men. I think that elevates the clitoral orgasm in pleasure. I'd rather have one clitoral orgasm than one vaginal orgasm. The nifty thing about the vaginal orgasms is that they just keep coming, wave after wave. When you have a hundred in a row, then it gets pretty mind-bending.
  • Edit
    Posts: 0

    What state do you live in? I'm amazed with your abilities. Are taking applications for boyfriends?

  • zanebluezaneblue
    Posts: 224
    (this post was edited 2005-06-17 06:00:49)

    I'm nothing special. Plenty of men here doing the equivalent of what I can do, and it's harder for men. The vaginal orgasm thing just takes strong PC muscles and the right biochemistry--any woman can do it. I teach women how all the time.

    I guess the heart orgasm thing is more unusual. After posting to that kundalini board link posted on this board, I'm wary. I was told it's something called shaktipat and might cause psychosis if I do it to a guy who isn't kundalini-awakened, which has scared the pants right on me.

    That said, I'm in Boston, lol. I should say the dismaying thing about this ability is that although sex is incredible, it is not satisfying unless I have a heart chakra orgasm. In other words, I am insatiable without it. For many men this sounds good on paper but the ones I have had sex with are very put off when they have sex with me, I'm like a sexual Energizer bunny.
  • PanPan
    Posts: 249

    My computer crashed for one day, and this thread exploded while I was gone! LOL.

    Mayfield, thanks for detailing your experiences with KSMO. I was always curious what happened there. I agree that privacy is the single most crucial factor for KSMO practice (unless you're an exhibitionist!) and that's not always easy to find. Although I would say that the Key Sound does work just as well at low volumes as it does when made loudly. The real problem I've found isn't the volume of the Key Sound, it's the urge to make other loud noises after you make after the Key Sound!

    I also totally agree that, as the saying goes, there are many paths to the mountain's peak. That's why I've made a hobby of collecting MMO methods which compliment each other. That way I'm always adding to my repetoire, but I never have to sacrifice anything that is already working for me. This is why I'm looking forward to trying Zane's diet. It's yet another, non-intrusive, and non-exclusive option.

    Oh, and the part about the Aneros being a harmonic issue rather than a PC issue, once again I completely agree! I rarely even focus on PC control while using the Aneros. It's mostly a reflex action during my sessions. It's funny, but I've actually had some of my best Super-O's when I was just lying there visualizing myself being in the midst of a continuous ejaculatory orgasm. After several minutes of vividly imagining this, a Super-O will often spontaneously occur, without any kind of physical stimulation or voluntary PC contractions. For me, PC contractions are often a side-effect of the Super-O, rather than a cause.

    Zane -

    You're very welcome for the tip on amygdala Clicking! Isn't it just an incredible little technique?!? and it keeps getting better the more you do it too! I'm constantly amazed by it and how few people know about it. Please feel free to spread the word around. I think everyone should know about it!

    A couple interesting facts about the difference between the amygdalae in men and women:

    1. Women's Amygdalae are smaller than men's. However, this actually means they are MORE responsive than men's, because in terms of neuro-physiology, a smaller organ means more tightly packed neurons, and therefore a heightened response mechanism. It's just like how the clitoris has more nerve endings than the whole penis.

    Some neuroligsts believe this difference in amygdala size explains why women are generally more emotionally receptive and empathic than men. At the same time, it suggests that the reason why men are more capable of "compartmentalizing" traumatic events and experiences, such as experiencing physical abuse or witnessing extreme violence, is because their amygdalae are less responsive in general. This is why men seem more capable of separating their minds from their hearts when necessary. It serves an evolutionary purpose for us to hunt and do battle without being emotionally involved at the time.

    Of course, Neil Slade's whole theory is based on the idea that we can change! By consciously influencing our amygdalae, we improve our thinking patterns and alter our behavior for the better. We become more human and less reptillian in our responses and therefore we evolve. And of course, we enhance our ability to feel pleasure along the way!

    Regarding the way you Clicked Forward, by going backwards, I think I may know what happened. You see, although the size of men's and women's amygdalae are different, their locations and functions within the brain are effectively identical. A number of studies done with miniature electrodes attached to various parts of the amygdalae have confirmed that, when stimulated, the parts which create positive feelings and the parts which create negative feelings, are the same in both sexes. So, in simple terms, forward is always good and backward is always bad.

    However, in the time I've been Clicking Forward, I've varied the types of visualizations I've used to make it happen. And I've found that imagining a feather tickling from the front works just as well as from the side or the back. As long as you imagine the energy itself moving forward. So I think you are still stimulating your anterior (front side) amygdalae, but perhaps you are able to sense them more easily by feeling backwards from your forehead.

    It's actually the same way for me. For instance, I often feel out my amygdalae by working backwards from the backs of my eyeballs (the amygdalae are located just behind and below the eyes), and once I can physically sense them, I tickle their front sides with a visualization, projecting the energy forward into my frontal lobes.

    But I found it especially fascinating when you described your forebrain as feeling like a pussy! And not just because my ears always perk up whenever heard that word!

    The funny thing is, and I've never seen anyone else describe it like this before, but from early into my practice of Clicking Forward, I developed a habit of visualizing my two amygdalae as a pair of penises! It just seemed to fit the sensation I was feeling from Clicking Forward, as if I had two extra penises in my head that were being stimulated. I've often described it as feeling like I'm ejaculating from two places at once within my head, and this creates a third feeling of continuously ejaculating in my genitals (although it's actually more of a prostatic orgasm, like a Super-O). So it often feels like I'm cumming continuously from 3 places simultaneously!

    I found that I could greatly enhance the effect of Clicking Forward by imagining my amygdalae are two penises that are being licked and sucked at the tips, which stimulate the front sides. It's essentially the same as the Feather Tickling technique, but for some reason I find it far more effective (and fun, in a kinky sort of way).

    At this point, I'd like to formally acknowledge that to anyone who has never Clicked Forward, I probably sound completely crazy! All I can say is, if you felt what it's like for yourself, this would actually start to make sense!

    Anyway Zane, I would just suggest thinking of Clicking Forward in terms of reaching back to find your amygdalae with your awareness and then teasing them forward with, ahem...stimulating visualizations.

    Oh and about your Energizer Bunny Syndrome, I'm not sure it's the same thing, but it reminds me of how I was when I started KSMO. In the first year or so of my practice, I would often have solo sessions that lasted for 3-4 hours at a time. I felt like I could on forever, and often wanted to! But as time went by, I found my sexual energy spreading more easily throughout my body and my chakras. My orgasms would surface more quickly and more powerfully than before, and I began to reach a point of satisfaction where, although I could easily keep going, it seemed like there was no point in it. Every part of me felt satisfied.

    So now I generally go for somewhere between 45-90 minutes in my solo sessions, before I reach that point of total satisfaction. But in terms of orgasms, I go much farther, much faster than I used to. This helped a lot when it came to making love with my wife, since believe it or not, in the beginning she was often wiped out by the time I was getting warmed up! Now we're pretty much in synch every time.

    So I don't know, it might be something totally different. But it sounded familiar and I just thought I'd say that, for me I think it was that I felt the need to keep going and going because some part of me (maybe my Heart Chakra) wasn't getting the sexual energy it wanted. And as I learned to let it flow more evenly all over, that part felt satisfied more quickly, and eventually I found more satisfaction with less stimulation.

    Well, guess that's my two cents for now. My wife and I are moving to a new apartment tomorrow, so I'll be off-line for a few days. It'll be interesting to see what else pops up in here while I'm gone!



  • Edit
    Posts: 0
    So, I bought some fish oil. How much should I be taking each day?
  • hello,

    so is smoking really bad? Does it hinder the Super O?
  • zanebluezaneblue
    Posts: 224
    (this post was edited 2005-06-17 20:08:09)

    Please don't take high-dose fish oil like this if you are taking blood-thinning medication like Coumadin, are on aspirin therapy, take a lot of over-the-counter pain relievers, are scheduled for surgery or are allergic to seafood. But I recommend enough to get 1600 mg of EPA and 800 mg of DHA per day. I personally take 3400 mg of EPA and 2600 mg of DHA per day, practically growing gills. Pharmaceutical-grade fish oil is easier on the digestive system and less pills to take too. But now I'm not sure since it didn't work for B. Mayfield. I've had a couple guys who used the Aneros write to me from another board completely raving about the fish oil.

    I'm not sure about the smoking with men. Men are blessed with higher dopamine levels than women. Theoretically it would probably interfere somewhat.

    Pan, I know I sound like a 100% total nutcase talking about the chakra things. I'm so glad I have someone to talk to about this stuff. Honest, I can do the forward movement thing, and I do feel refreshed and creative and benign and all that stuff but it doesn't feel orgasmic. Now I'm curious about his female researchers, if any of them reported orgasmic sensations from forward clicking. When I click backwards, the wrong way, it feels very reptilian. It makes me want to fight, it makes me see red, it feels really dirty. Really, really dirty--much dirtier than anything I've ever done, and I've done some pretty kinky things. It's like it triggers all the porn talk in my mind and violent sex. It also triggers a strong orgasm. It makes me feel totally grounded. It just feels right. And it really does feel like a pussy, like the third eye is my pussy muscles flexing around an imaginary penis, and the cockhead is hitting right at the amygdala, just like it would hit my cul de sac up behind my cervix, triggering orgasm. I have been wanting a sixth chakra orgasm for so long. I've known I was close--I would get a throbbing feeling at my third eye but nothing came of it. Now I know I've got it.

    As for sex, I can be totally satisfied with sex after ten minutes or two hours or whatever by simply having a heart chakra orgasm. Totally satisfies. And that's my problem.
  • Man, you guys are awesome. The amount of information in this thread is incredible. Unfortunately for me, it's like information overload... too much for me to take in at once. If you guys could condense and consolidate all of this information into one web page (or pages), I think it would be most helpful to a lot of people. I'd even get a domain and host it for you.

    I've looked at the KSMO thing and it sounds great (although the web site is hard to navigate). And the amygdala clicking (with an even worse web site) just seems "right" to me. I feel that it's a key to unlocking a person's untapped potential.

    Something else that was kind of glossed over here was the use of meditative/brainwave audio. I've long been interested in this and I've even played with some software that generates various frequencies, binaural beats, etc. (This goes back to the days when I was studying out-of-body experiences... Robert Monroe... hemi-sync.) Can any of you give any tips on what types of waves are best (alpha, theta, etc)? How about some suggested CDs that may be available? And can you explain how this could be incorporated into getting the most of the Aneros?

    Thanks for the very intelligent dialog going on here!!!
  • zanebluezaneblue
    Posts: 224
    It's just nice to talk about it. It's been so rough the last few years since I've developed the spontaneous orgasm ability. I've been trying very hard to spread the word, but I soon found that women basically thought I was a delusional freak. Women have been really, really hostile to me. I pretty quickly stopped talking about the chakra stuff, and then stopped talking about the spontaneous orgasm part, simply concentrating on the fact that I could help women who can't have a vaginal orgasm (more than half of all women) acquire the ability. But even there women are often extremely hostile, "And what is wrong with clitoral orgasms, all orgasms are clitoral, thank you very much!" Even just increasing female libido, which my diet does, has been met with some hostility. My gender really baffles me at times. I mean I'm not talking about lubing something up and sticking it up your ass. These are vaginal orgasms--they are produced by sex--sexual intercourse. What's freaky about that?

    I broke down at one of the women's boards I post at and started blathering about chakra orgasms in a moment of weakness. This was one woman's response:

    "zaneblue, you're so full of *it* you wouldnt't know a Snickers bar from a packet of ribbed full-ecstacy Trojans.

    First: you're a guy.
    Second: you live in a fantasyland.
    Third: you know nothing about women or sex. Just because you have a dick that works doesn't mean that you have a clue as what to do with it.

    Lastly: Take your idiotic ideas out to the land of OZ where you belong and stop bothering people with your nonsensical meanderings. And don't come back.

    P.S. We won't miss you. "
  • B MayfieldB Mayfield
    Posts: 2,140

    Go to Check out a CD entitled (appropriately enough) ECSTASY. It features music with embedded alpha and theta dialogue or voices. I've found it very powerful.

    As far as using it goes...toss on a set of headphones, close your eyes, insert the Aneros and just relax with it for a contractions yet...just relax. Then slowly start to visualize...perhaps bringing back some erotic imagery that you find particularly arousing or perhaps you may want to start with something more abstract. By abstract I mean something like visualizing sensation filling your rectum and expanding outward toward your abdomen, an area just an inch or two below your navel (your second chakra) . As these images materialize in your minds eye think about initiating a subtle anal contraction and holding it. Become aware of the sensation of holding (hold for about 10 seconds...but don't count it's not about being precise). Once you release it, become aware of that sensation too. After several of these, create a basal contraction (just above the level of non-contracted) and hold it. From now until of the end of the session always come back to the low level contraction. Now try some upgraded contractions from there..holding and releasing, always pausing to bask in the sensations that these produce. You may become vaguely aware of a feeling of arousal in your abdomen.....almost a very low level tickling. You may find yourself breathing a bit more rapidly or deeper...your pulse may quicken too. Experiment and explore...enjoy!

    This CD give a nice support to a session. It can actually generate and bolster arousal!

    BF Mayfield
  • zaneblue:

    The world (most of it, anyway) is not ready for your message. That was just plain hostile. About 15 years ago, I would have probably reacted to you the same way. Since that time, I've become much more open-minded, realizing that there's much more to our existence than meets the eye. I'm sorry for you being treated that way. But don't give up! Keep on trying... and you'll help the ones that are looking for it (even if they don't know they are).

    B Mayfield:

    Thanks so much for the tips. I will definitely give it a go. I think something like that will help with relaxation and focus. As it is, my mind seems to go 100 different directions all at once.
  • PanPan
    Posts: 249
    Ok, so I lied! I saw the new replies and I just had to post one more time before I sign off. So THIS will be my final post for awhile...

    "Pan, I know I sound like a 100% total nutcase talking about the chakra things. I'm so glad I have someone to talk to about this stuff"

    Oh me too! I'm especially intrigued by the parallels between our experiences. To me it's a constant reminder of what I've always suspected since learning KSMO - After a certain point, men and women are really quite similiar in the way we express pleasure!

    "Honest, I can do the forward movement thing, and I do feel refreshed and creative and benign and all that stuff but it doesn't feel orgasmic. Now I'm curious about his female researchers, if any of them reported orgasmic sensations from forward clicking."

    This is why I deeply wish Neil Slade had a Forum at his website! Amygdala Clicking deserves a lot more discussion and field research than it's getting. The only thing I can refer to off the top of my head is an email quoted in one of Neil's newsletters, where a young woman reported having an orgasm while clicking forward as she was kissing her boyfriend (with clothes on).

    I know Clicking Forward is known to produce orgasms quite frequently in both sexes, but there are lots of variations as well. For instance, some people can't physically feel their amygdalae, but they still experience powerful mental and emotional highs from clicking forward. Obviously, you and I are in the group of people who actually feel their amygdalae.

    "When I click backwards, the wrong way, it feels very reptilian. It makes me want to fight, it makes me see red, it feels really dirty. Really, really dirty--much dirtier than anything I've ever done, and I've done some pretty kinky things. It's like it triggers all the porn talk in my mind and violent sex."

    Yeah, that pretty much sums up clicking backward! Some people also report feeling fearful, angry, cruel, etc.

    "It also triggers a strong orgasm. It makes me feel totally grounded. It just feels right."

    Ok, this is starting to make more sense to me. But then I really know so very little about Amygdala Clicking. I'm still just a newbie at it myself. But Neil does talk about how people are just as, if not more prone to getting pleasure out of backward clicking activities. These can include things like physical violence, making fun of others, stealing, etc. It's perfectly natural.

    According to Neil, it's just considered inferior to clicking forward in terms of pleasure and evolution. For instance, punching someone may feel good, but it shouldn't feel as good as a Heartgasm! So clicking backward may still be serving some purpose for you, perhaps in the same way I really loved sparring in Karate tournaments. It's a rush! It feels good, in a bad way! And that's ok!

    But in my mind, it seems logical that if you can have an orgasm from clicking backward you can certainly have one from clicking forward too. Probably an even better one. It may just require a little more clicking. But I know Neil is a really laid back kinda guy and if you email him about it, I'm sure he'll give you a staight answer that makes better sense than I can. If you do, please let us know what he said, cuz I'm totally facinated by this!

    "And it really does feel like a pussy, like the third eye is my pussy muscles flexing around an imaginary penis, and the cockhead is hitting right at the amygdala, just like it would hit my cul de sac up behind my cervix, triggering orgasm."

    I can't tell you how relieving it is to have someone confirm the female equivalent of what I feel when I'm clicking forward! It may seem wierd, but at least now I know I'm not the only one who experiences feeling their amygdalae in a genital-like way.

    "I have been wanting a sixth chakra orgasm for so long. I've known I was close--I would get a throbbing feeling at my third eye but nothing came of it. Now I know I've got it."

    I know what you mean. It still amazes me how something so incredibly pleasurable can be so easy to do, and yet I could have easily gone my whole life without ever feeling it if I hadn't bumped into that website!

    " I've been trying very hard to spread the word, but I soon found that women basically thought I was a delusional freak. Women have been really, really hostile to me."

    This really took me by surprise! I've had the exact same experience for the past 5 years almost every time I post about MMO outside of this Forum or the KSMO website. I've found most men to be incredibly defensive and sarcastic about the very idea of MMO's, but I never would have imagined it would be the same way for women too!

    But keep the faith sister! People need to hear your story. Or as Jack likes to say, "We're changing the world, one orgasm at a time!"


    That was an excellent guide for using the Ecstasy Cd with the Aneros! It pretty much described exactly how I do it too. Just add Clicking Forward to that mix and it's identical!


    I just want to add that the overall effects of the Ecstasy Cd will definitely be enhanced if the cd is listened to once a day, every day for about 3-4 weeks in a row. You can use it with the aneros on some days and then just while relaxing, perhaps with some fantasy or visualization on the other days.

    Also, if you are more interested in developing focus and basic meditation skills, I would recommend the Total Relaxation Cd available at the same website. It's just Alpha Waves mixed with music. So it's relaxing, and can help you focus your thoughts, but without the somewhat trippy effects of the Theta Waves which are part of the Ecstasy Cd program. It's also good to play just before bed if you have trouble getting to sleep at night.

    Ok, NOW I'm really signing off for the next few days!

    Take care guys,


  • B MayfieldB Mayfield
    Posts: 2,140
    Pan / Zane,

    Imagine my surprise when I went on line this evening and found the following article on my browser (a headline news item under science and health). I think you'll find it apropos our discussions here. Specifically how they relate how a certain part of the brain (which they later reveal as the amygdala) is switched off (forward / backwards) in women during orgasm. 'Ol T.D. LIngo would have loved this.

    A part that I found particular amusing was that they (sic) had trouble getting reliable results from the study on men because the scanner needs activities lasting at least two minutes, and the men's climaxes didn't last that long. Obviously their test subjects lacked the ability for the Super O!!

    COPENHAGEN, Denmark (AP) - New research indicates parts of the brain that govern fear and anxiety are switched off when a woman is having an orgasm but remain active if she is faking.

    In the first study to map brain function during orgasm, scientists from the Netherlands also found that as a woman climaxes, an area of the brain governing emotional control is largely deactivated.

    ``The fact that there is no deactivation in faked orgasms means a basic part of a real orgasm is letting go. Women can imitate orgasm quite well, as we know, but there is nothing really happening in the brain,'' said neuroscientist Gert Holstege, presenting his findings Monday to the annual meeting of the European Society of Human Reproduction and Embryology.

    In the study, Holstege and his colleagues at Groningen University recruited 11 men, 13 women and their partners.

    The volunteers were injected with a dye that shows changes in brain function on a scan. For men, the scanner tracked activity at rest, during erection, during manual stimulation by their partner and during ejaculation brought on by the partner's hand.

    For women, the scanner measured brain activity at rest, while they faked an orgasm, while their partners stimulated their clitoris and while they experienced orgasm.

    Holstege said he had trouble getting reliable results from the study on men because the scanner needs activities lasting at least two minutes and the men's climaxes didn't last that long. However, the scans did show activation of reward centers in the brain for men, but not for women.

    Holstege said his results on women were more clear.

    When women faked orgasm, the cortex, the part of the brain governing conscious action, lit up. It was not activated during a genuine orgasm.

    Even the body movements made during a real orgasm were unconscious, Holstege said.

    The most striking results were seen in the parts of the brain that shut down, or deactivated. Deactivation was visible in the amygdala, a part of the brain thought to be involved in the neurobiology of fear and anxiety.

    ``During orgasm, there was strong, enormous deactivation in the brain. During fake orgasm, there was no deactivation of the brain at all. None,'' Holstege said.

    Shutting down the brain during orgasm may ensure that obstacles such as fear and stress did not get in the way, Holstege proposed. ``Deactivation of these very important parts of the brain might be the most important necessity for having an orgasm,'' he said.

    Donald Pfaff, professor of neurobiology and behavior at Rockefeller University in New York, said the interpretations were reasonable. ``It makes poetic sense,'' said Pfaff, who was not connected with the research.

    On the Net:

    European Society of Human Reproduction and Embryology

  • zanebluezaneblue
    Posts: 224
    Ooooh, thank you Pan! That Ecstasy CD is groooooooooovy! LOL
  • In case anyone else is interested... I put together a list of PC software that lets you create custom brainwave audio files. I'd recommend looking at SHARM first. It's very easy to use, yet it really does a lot.

    SHARM -

    SHARM (Self Hypnosis and Relaxation Machine) gives you full control over the different aspects of your self-hypnosis, relaxation and meditation sessions. Using SHARM, you will learn to design and customize your sessions quickly and easily. Explore and study the influence of different types of sound on your state of consciousness.

    Powerful sound tracks support advanced sound technology:

    Suggestions - Over 160 empowering suggestions
    Affirmations - Mix your own affirmations in your session
    Nature Sounds - Relaxing sounds of water and birds
    Background Noise - Cycling through your ears
    Binaural Beat - Brainwave entrainment technology
    Musical bells - Musical patterns to focus your attention
    Ambient Sounds - Infinite fascinating background sounds
    Breathwork - Practice deep breathing (Pranayama)
    OM Chorus - Practice the amazing OM chorus sound

    Binaural Beat Mixer -

    The Binaural Mixer is a software tool that helps you to explore and experience altered states of consciousness with the Binaural Beat sound. Simply select your favorite music titles, set the properties of the sound and click the Mix Button. Within minutes you will create your own sound tracks, combining any music tracks with Binaural Beat frequency sounds.

    Neuro-Programmer -

    The Neuro-Programmer 2 (NP2) is an innovative software application for the PC, built to help you achieve rapid and long lasting personal change. NP2 stimulates Brainwaves while using Hypnosis, NLP and other Psychological techniques to help you transform your mind and enhance your mental abilities.

    Other systems simply generate tones or binaural beats, which can be invasive or unpleasant to listen to. BSS can generate tones too, but it can also do a lot more than that. In fact, BSS is capable of producing all known forms of audio entrainment. And the best part is that you can use any sound of our choosing as the carrier wave for this entrainment.

    Brain Sound Studio -

    Brain Sound Studio (BSS) takes any sound of your choosing - such as an MP3 or WAV file - and uses the existing sound as the carrier wave for brainwave entrainment! BSS passes the sound through a series of complex scientific filters, subtly changing it to have dramatic effects on the brain. Using BSS, you can guide your brain to nearly any mental state, such as concentration, euphoria, accelerated learning, relaxation, trance and more. You can use BSS to explore exotic mental states such as lucid dreaming and out of body experiences.

    Neural Noise Synthesizer -

    Neural Noise Synthesizer generates specially engineered Noise which affects the brain in unique ways through a process known as brainwave entrainment (or BWE), using the Noise itself as the carrier wave. By directly stimulating the brain, NNS is able to guide your brain to nearly any mental state, such as concentration, euphoria, accelerated learning, relaxation, trance and more.

    Even if you just want to use or customize White Noise for sleep, meditation or relaxation, NNS does that too, but does it a thousand times better. Using this software you can bring yourself into a much deeper sleep or even to a more precise, lucid dreaming state. In fact, NNS gives you the power to precisely control your entire sleep cycle!

    BrainWave Generator -

    BrainWave Generator generates binaural beats that change your brain frequency towards the desired state, be it relaxation or enhanced attention. In addition to using the more than 20 built-in brain wave entrainment programs, you can create your own programs (presets).
  • mu1timu1ti
    Posts: 61
    This is one of the best threads I ever read :) Should be good for a sticky imho :)

    Thanks to Ilikeit so much for the binaural software links! Who here knows what type of brain wave is more condusive to super O? Would love an answer to that one if it's not already covered & I missed it.

    Thanks also to Zane for the body chemistry info, Will check that out too & will feed back here if it helps my quest.

    I have the ecstacy CD, frontal lobes super charge book, ksmo seminar & they are all good. Had the full experience with key sound a couple of years back but life got busy & stressful, no fault of ksmo but couldn't quite repeat it, now I'm getting closer again with my modified Helix, yesterday had an extended full system experience, very mild but promising and interestingly different.

    I notice Jack Johnston recommends the quest for wild divine game, think you can buy on Amazon - would be interesting to get some fback on that if anyone has tried it.

    I started on Korean (red) ginseng tabs last week, feel a lot better in myself, much more energy in my system - think it should help too.

    fyi the brain orgasm science story is rewritten here with a couple of brain scan photos
    I guess that's the Septum that's lit up in both pics? Interesting the rest of the brain seems to shut down during Orgasm!

    Thanks again guys for the top info 8)

  • PanPan
    Posts: 249
    Thanks for the article B!

    I found it very interesting. It's funny how often scientists refer to the amygdalae only in terms of fear, anxiety, and aggression. That's literally only half the story! The amygdalae also contain the highest concentration of opiate receptors in the brain. Not to mention their shared neural pathways with the (orgasm-related) septal regions. They're clearly designed to do more than just make us feel bad!

    I also found it especially interesting how the study suggests that conscious action and orgasm can't occupy the same space at the same time. In the past I've debated on this point with practitioners of the classic Tantric and Taoist PC control methods.

    I generally don't consider voluntary PC contractions to be a path to true multiple orgasms because they always require a degree of conscious self-control throughout the experience. With PC methods, guys are never really able to let go and enjoy the experience. Some part of them must always be carefully controlling their bodies in order to prevent accidental ejaculation. It always seemed to me that if you have to have control anything, then you're not really having an orgasm.

    And actually, just like KSMO, I think the Aneros proves this point as well. With the Aneros, you can encourage a Super-O with subtle contractions, and you can help set the stage with deep relaxed breathing, various positions, erotic fantasies or porn. But ultimately, all you can do is set the stage for Super-O's to occur on their own. You can't force a Super-O anymore than you can make yourself sneeze!

    Zane - I'm glad you like the Ecstasy Cd! If you have any especially interesting results using it with Clicking Forward, please let us know about them!

    ilikeitalot - Thanks for posting the various brainwave programs. I tried the BrainWave Generator trial version but I found it a bit complicated for my limited technical abilities. I ended up buying the BSS program instead. I found it to be a little more user friendly. But more importantly, with BSS I can make brainwave Cd's that work without headphones.

    I'm also interested in the SHARM program. If anyone has tried it, I'd love to hear more about it.

    mu1ti - Regarding the best brainwave state to achieve the Super-O, I'm fairly certain it's either in Alpha, Theta, or a combintation of the two. I know all the pleasure-related endorphins seem to be produced in either Alpha or Theta state. So anything in that range is likely to be at least a little helpful. The Ecstasy Cd uses a combination of Alpha and Theta, but unfortunately I don't have the exact recipe. I've been using BSS to try and create a program that induces the exact same effect. But no luck so far.

    You can also go to and check out their preset library. People often describe what Hz patterns they used in their programs, so it can be helpful in designing your own.

    Of course, you can always just try listening to the Ecstasy Cd during or just prior to your sessions. The only reason I'm trying to re-create the Ecstasy Cd with BSS is so I won't need the headphones anymore. Otherwise I'd just stick with that. After all, why mess with perfection!?!
  • mu1timu1ti
    Posts: 61
    Pan this is interesting from the BSS documentation...

    Theta 1 - (3 - 5 Hz) If suppressed, can improve concentration and ability to focus attention. Generally not a good thing to increase.
    Theta 2 - (5 - 8 Hz) Very relaxed and dreamful sleep. Life-Transforming, paranormal, and spiritual experiences are most common at this band.

    Plenty of info in the docs about the other bands but theta 2 looks intriguing!

    Pan I used to chat with you on Jack's site, good to meet you again - Andi says hello to both of you too :) Glad you're doing ok
  • PanPan
    Posts: 249
    Oh Wow!

    It's great to hear from you again! Amy also says hello.

  • mu1timu1ti
    Posts: 61
    Nice 1 Pan :) Good to see you too

    Found this comment on

    "I know 10.5 Hz, with a secondary bb @ 8.5 enhances orgasm by orders of magnitude."

    Interesting, will try that on my BSS demo!

    Cheers, P
  • PanPan
    Posts: 249
    Yeah, it's interesting. Everywhere I look, people claim this or that Hz to produce the most potent sexual response. I've seen everything from 9.5Hz down to 1.5Hz claimed to be The Sexual Tone or some such term.

    Generally, most seem to fall somewhere between 9.5Hz and 6.5Hz (low Alpha to mid Theta). My experience has been that anything in the Alpha-Theta range has the potential to be a sexual enhancement provided your intentions are geared that way. So I would feel free to play with that range.

    I'm not sure there really is an ideal Hz level for sexual response. To me that's like saying there's a perfect dosage for a particular drug. People often respond differently to the same stimulus.

    But I think it's fairly universal that people feel more aroused when they are in a relaxed state (alpha) and able to freely and vividly explore with their imaginations (theta).

  • mu1timu1ti
    Posts: 61
    Haha 1.5Hz :D
    Best day of my life & I can't remember a thing about it :)

    Pan, instead of clicking your Amygdalae why not click your septum? Maybe this part of the brain can't be self contolled. But then maybe it can!?

    Cheers bro, P
  • PanPan
    Posts: 249

    Originally Posted By: mu1ti
    Haha 1.5Hz :D
    Best day of my life & I can't remember a thing about it :)


    Wow, tell us more about THAT!

    I've never even tried to go below 4Hz myself. I hear it's not actually possible to entrain that low. But then I barely comprehend all this Hz stuff as it is. All I really know is that playing with the numbers leads to some rather interesting experiences.


    You've got a great point about those septal areas! I have no idea why there's no techniques for going right to the source, so to speak. Heck I'm still getting used to the idea that I can feel ANY part of my brain at all. LOL.
  • B MayfieldB Mayfield
    Posts: 2,140
    (this post was edited 2005-07-02 10:09:03)

    Just some food for thought,

    The normal range of human hearing for individuals in good health is from 20hz to 20, 000hz. In teenagers and young adults it may be a bit lower at 15hz for a time. Be aware that at 15 cycles (hz) you have something that is so low that one doesn't experience it a tone per se, but a vague vibration.

    Arguably there may be lower frequencies that are perhaps sensed by the body in ways that do not involve the ear. But bear this in mind, there are few loudspeakers (transducers) that can even produce 15cycles, let alone anything below. Most subwoofers typically bottom out well before 18 cycles (I happen to have one that goes down to 16 cycles, although I'm doubtful that I've ever had the source material or the physical capacity to have experienced it).

    The frequency response on headphones; again 20 to 20, 000hz.

    Now, there are theories about higher frequencies (higher than 20 K) creating artifacts that may find their way down into our range of perception (a rationale for why digital audio technology keeps employing higher sampling rates). I never seen this applied to ultra low frequencies though.

    In the final analysis, without the capacity to reproduce it or percieve it....I'm not sure what use a tone of 1.5 hz could be?

    BF Mayfield
  • mu1timu1ti
    Posts: 61
    Hi B Mayfield :) Read a lot of your posts, great stuff.
    The tone could be amplitude modulated rather than a 8Hz sine wave which you are correct to say wouldn't be heard, however an audible tone delivered at 8 pulses per second can be heard fine & definitely can cause a sympathetic brain wave reaction.

    Pan, Hz just means pulses per second so if you tap your pencil 3 times a second you are tapping at 3 Hz. 440 times & you're in tune with your guitars A string!
    If you can remember what these pulse rates feel like you can create them at will, no need for the software then - do it any time!
    Let me know if you find your septum Pan - if you ever come down :D

    Cheers guys :), P
  • Re: not being able to hear frequencies below 20Hz....

    B Mayfield is correct on this. The ears and brain cannot discern Delta (0-4Hz), Theta (4-8Hz) and Alpha (8-14Hz) frequencies. (Although, as mu1ti states, maybe you *can* hear square waves as opposed to sine waves.) Anyway, the usual trick has to do with binaural beats. This is where you mix two frequencies so that the brain will hear the difference. Here's the theory from the BrainWave Generator web site:

    Stimulating the brain with binaural beat frequencies

    The easiest way of applying stimulus to the brain is via ears. Other senses could be used as well, and vision is actually used quite often (often in addition to hearing). However, humans cannot hear sounds low enough to be useful for brain stimulation, so special techniques must be used. One such special technique used is called binaural beats.

    If the left ear is presented with a steady tone of 500Hz and the right ear a steady tone of 510Hz, these two tones combine in the brain. The difference, 10Hz, is perceived by the brain and is a very effective stimulus for brainwave entrainment. This 10Hz is formed entirely by the brain. When using stereo headphones, the left and right sounds do not mix together until in your brain. The frequency difference, when perceived by brain this way, is called a binaural beat.

    The effect of the audible frequencies used

    To get a stimulus of 10Hz, you may use tones of 500Hz and 510Hz, or 400Hz and 410Hz, or 800Hz and 810Hz, or so on. The only requirements are that the tone is heard well enough and that it is below about 1000Hz. Below 1000Hz, the wavelength of the skull is sufficiently small so that the sound waves curve around it.
  • Edit
    Posts: 0
    I read earlier in this thread about some people using a CD with embedded binaural beats for relaxation and to intensify the experience. (BTW if you're not familiar with brainwave entrainment, check out -- and you can download the brainwave generator to try it out.) I was wondering if anyone else had tried this.

    But this got me thinking, and I ran across another different subject -- erotic hypnosis. Basically listening to an MP3 file of a hypnotist who takes you into a trance and implants suggestions in your subconscious involving sexuality in some way, such as being able to experience orgasm on command. (Quick link about hypnosis in general, if you don't understand it: The relaxed, tranced state you are trying to achieve in hypnosis is similar to REM sleep and is dominated by Alpha-Theta brainwaves, so it seems similar to using binaural beats in a way. Plus you can (attempt) to train yourself to experience multiple orgasms, or orgasm from anal stimulation, or any number of other things that might be useful in conjunction with the aneros. It seemed like an interesting avenue to explore.

    The only site I have found that's not trying to brainwash you into paying them money is Most of the MP3's are free, though they cover a much broader range of weird sexual interests than those I mentioned. From the reading I have done on the subject, it seems that in order for hypnosis to work you have to want it to work and believe that it can. If you are resistant, or are an "analytical" type of person, you will have more difficulty seeing any results. If you're going to try this out, start with the inductions, deepening, and trainsuggestible for a while, then try one of the easier trigger files, like trigfreeze2 before moving up to being able to orgasm on command. It takes practice and sometimes months I've heard. I just started messing around with this.

    Anyway, just wondering if anyone had experimented with brainwaves/hypnotism along with the aneros. I don't have one yet but hopefully will get one soon.
  • PanPan
    Posts: 249
    Hey John,

    as an alternative, I think the Ecstasy Cd (at which uses Alpha-Theta brainwave patterns, can be a great tool for erotic self-hypnosis all on it's own. Since hypnosis generally occurs in either alpha or theta state, you might say the Cd guides you into an automatic state of hypnosis.

    The traditional use of spoken inductions, progressive relaxation, and eye fixation are all just ways of helping the brain sink (or sync) into a natural alpha state which quiets the critical factor and enhances suggestibility, i.e. hypnosis.

    The problem for some folks is that it requires a certain degree of trust to follow the hypnotist's instructions and concentration to create the desired effect. In other words, traditional hypnosis usually requires active effort and participation in order to work effectively.

    However brainwave entrainment provides a method of entering hypnosis passively, without effort or concentration. With no words involved, there's nothing to resist or analyze. One need only relax and listen to the music. The brain does the rest.

    Another interesting thing about hypnosis is that using vivid imagination to direct your subconscious towards a desired goal can be just as effective, if not more so, than words alone.

    Essentially, your subconscious doesn't know the difference between fantasy and reality. It readily accepts them both as equally "real." So the more vividly you imagine the feelings, sensations, and experiences you desire as already being real, the more readily your subconscious will accept them as facts and eventually make them a reality.

    The combination of alpha and theta waves used in the Ecstasy Cd enhances creativity and focus, allowing for much more vivid and realistic visualization. At the same time, it enhances the release of pleasure-enhancing endorphins in the brain which helps make those erotic fantasies even more believable. Practiced regularly, the result is a powerfully convincing message to your subconscious - THIS IS WHAT HAPPENS WHEN I... (use the Aneros, make love to my wife, etc.)

    So you don't always have to "tell" your subconscious what you want in words, sometimes you can just "show" it what you want and get the same results. I've found this method especially helpful when I'm having trouble finding just the right words to make a hypnosis script or finding one to match my specific goal.

    I have used self-hypnosis and professionally produced Cd's and video hypnosis programs to enhance sexual pleasure in the past, and found them to be incredibly effective. But if you're new to the practice, you may find the Ecstasy Cd to be a great set of training wheels along the way.

    And as a final note, I'm not the analytical type, but for some reason when it comes to being hypnotized, I'm extremely picky who's voice it is. I consider recieving hypnosis to be at least as intimate as recieving a full body massage. And frankly, the guy at just freaks me out.

    Personally I'd rather pay the money for a quality recording from Wendi Friesen at or Victora Wizel at, they both have wonderful, soothing voices, excellent scripts, and professional credentials. Whenever I really want something quality, I go to them or if all else fails, I just make it myself.


  • Edit
    Posts: 0

    Originally Posted By: zaneblue
    I found out today that I'm way beyond tantric. I thought the tantra people were doing what I'm doing but they aren't--I talked with someone who's gone to all the workshops, etc. He had no idea what I was talking about.

    Where do I go to meet men who are really handy with Super-O orgasms, so much so that kundalini rising has been triggered? I'm having intense heart chakra orgasms--along with dozens of female Super-O orgasms just from flexing my PC muscles every day. I want to find someone advanced enough in tantra to be able to feel what I feel. Having regular sex, while certainly fun, isn't very satisfying. Help me please.

    Not relevant, but I thought you might be interested in adding to your stock of skills:

    didnt know where else to put it.