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Testosterone Therapy?
  • Hey, guys...

    There has been a plethora of advertising lately for many different products that promise miraculous results from testosterone enhancement/therapy.  Androgel, oral supplements, injections...all promise increased "maleness" and great sexual prowess....maybe.

    I'm interested to know if any of you have actually tried this or if it's just like penis enhancement...all hype and little substance.  I did some research and it seems that unless one is willing to commit to a series of direct inter muscular injections, most of the other means of delivery are of dubious, if not uncertain value.

    The Androgel method would have you smear the gunk on your shoulders and trunk, and comes in two different concentrations.  I suppose if an old git like me were to try it I would probably get nothin' but it's interesting nonetheless.

    So...what do you think? Inquiring minds need to know this kinda stuff.

  • Cock, I am clinically diagnosed with low-T.  My count is around 5 times less than average.  I'm 30.  I know my testosterone will rapidly decline each decade now.  My thought has been, well, it's next to nothing now, I guess I can't "rapidly" decline from nothing to nothing, right?  My point is that I've been just as curious, but also have a different perspective to add to the mix.  I work in retail pharmacy.  The last two years I've seen a massive increase in the amount of testosterone products being dispensed.  Most are not covered by insurance, or are covered after obtaining a prior authorization.  The cost of Androgel is about 150 bucks a  month, a little more depending on the form as there are a few.  To my knowledge the Androgel is supposed to be as clinically effective as the injection.  The injection often goes on backorder and is not available.  In the long run, the injection is much cheaper as 1 vial of 10mls can last upwards of 10 months since the most common dosage is 1ml a month.  Sometimes an order for 1ml every two weeks is prescribed, which would then decrease the duration of the 10ml multi-use vial to 5 months.  The cost of the syringes needed to inject the testosterone is almost nothing, about 30 cents per syringe.  From that standpoint, that's the information I can provide.  I can say that many men are starting to get testosterone treatment of some sort at younger ages too, in their late 30s/early 40s.  I'm not sure if that's because they feel the need the treatments of the doctors.

    What I'll do, because I'm curious for myself as well since I already have the low-T condition is pull some clinical research at work and see what the facts are.  I'll be more than happy to do some research and post some findings.

  • isvaraisvara
    Posts: 1,009
    I use HRT. I use a product called Andro Forte 2 it is 2% ?gm T per ml I think. The tube is 50gms I use 3/4 of a 1ml daily.
    I find it makes me more positive. I also notice that when I take it my penis in its unerect state has more body to it. Certainly not a button mushroom.
    T levels are age related but males of today have considerably less T than males 50 or so years age. Many doctors treat 90 yr old T levels as okay for 30 yr olds.
    All my blood work indicates I am a bit above average.
    I have not taken HRT for libido's sake. But I do not lack this
  • TeederTeeder
    Posts: 31

     Keeping yourself in shape as in weight lifting and running goes a long ways as to keeping your test levels up as well.  This along with some simple OTC suppliments has worked great for me, also stear clear of as many processed fats as possible.  Things like margarine, processed cooking oils (and by processed I mean man made ingredients) speed the break down of your testosterone into estrogen.  Do a search in the mens health mag for this article you will be surprised on how many things you eat that contain processed oils in one form or another.  Your levels of estrogen and testosterone also play a major role in the onslaught of heart disease as well.  The sups that I take are Amidren and tribulus terrestris and I hit my Bow Flex home gym 2 to 3 times a week.  I treat this as self defense against feeling the aches and pains of growing older.  The Bow Flex is great as it is low impact so muscle strains and pulls, joint injuries and tendon stresses are all reduced.

      My 2 cents worth.




  • stumpystumpy
    Posts: 140
    Cockadoodle...I'm 38 years old. I've been on HRT for about a year and a half. I originally inquired because of lack of sex drive, as well as depression (to the point of moody). My GP took some blood work and my test levels were about 300...a lot of Dr's say that's normal and don't treat it. However that's just not true. Test levels of 300 is the equivalent of a 60yr old male. He was treating me with 1ml twice a month, but my numbers weren't budging, so we tried Testim along with injections and no luck. In fact my numbers were going down to as low as 260. I researched and found a great Urologist that specializes in Vasectomy reversal, but does Hormone therapy on the side as well. I now take self administered injections of 1ml a week, coupled with Arimidex to keep Estrogen in check. My last results were test at 1040, my estrogen was originally high, but then we brought it down to low, so I'm constantly tweaking my Arimidex dosage. However I feel great and I found my morning wood that had gone missing.

    Btw...I have been going to the gym 5 days a week and eating well for about 8 years. I lost over 40lbs in the beginning and have maintained a good weight since. So sometimes it is just medically necessary.

    Talk to your dr and do some research if you think there's a problem...HRT has definitely changed my life. Unfortunately it's somewhat I will be taking them for as long as I'm alive or till Zombie apocalypse occurs in which case I'll be screwed. Or worse the new health care laws limit my coverage.

    Also my insurance covers it and a month worth of injections costs me $15.00...there are no missing zero's there.

    It doesn't however make my dick just makes it more...user friendly? Lol

    Hope this helps.
  • TurnrowTurnrow
    Posts: 174


    What effect did the T injections and getting your hormones right have on your rewiring?  Were your experiences better after the T injections?  Was it easier to become rewired or did the T injections make getting to the super O better and easier.

    I am fixing to go on T injections, HCG injections, Semorelin (natural HGH peptide) and an arimidex regimen.  I am in hopes that these will make my path to the super O better as a six decade man. 

    Thanks for any advice you can give us.

  • stumpystumpy
    Posts: 140
    That's actually hard to say. I started the new weekly regimen right before summer let out, so my kids were home during the summer. Needless to say, my quiet time decreased significantly and my Anero's sessions suffered. Then after they went back to school my wife started working from home a few days a week and my consulting business had taken off. So honestly I haven't been able to dedicate much time to it...much less get back to my Mon/Wed/Fri 2 hour sessions since May.

    I have found the prostate cradle, and have been able to dedicate some time to that in the mornings before I hit the gym, since it affords a little discretion and less prep work and it's been great, but I don't have a basis for how it would have worked prior.
  • stumpystumpy
    Posts: 140
    Turnrow...some advice on your treatment.

    1) Do not wait more then 7 days between injections. No matter the dose the half life in the body is somewhere between 5-8 days. After that your Test crashes and you'll feel like crap. Argue with your Dr if he suggest this.
    2) Some people don't need Arimidex, and it is a very powerful drug. So don't take it until after a month or 2 and you redo your bodywork. Or if you start to get tenderness in the breasts, then that's a sign of Estrogen spiking and you should start taking it. When I say breast tenderness, I don't mean in a good way...more like the worst runners nipple you could ever have way...OUCH!
    3) In the US the lowest dose of Arimidex is 1mg. My Estrogen was at 65 after a couple of months which is about 40pts too high. So the Dr had me on 1mg every other day. Well it worked brought my Estrogen down to 5...and I was moodier then a 13yr old girl after getting her first period (or whenever girls get their first period), and my dick literally fell asleep (cold and lifeless). So I take .25 mg about every 3 days now, but sometimes I take it more often, as I've gotten good at telling the signs of when it's spiking. Most Dr's will let you tweak this as needed...just stress your concerns.
    4) if your self injecting split your dose into twice a week...this helps control the highs and lows and keeps it more stable. Also the thigh is the easiest injection site for self injections...use an 18 gauge to draw, then use a 25 gauge to inject. Less painful...

    Feel free to PM me anytime and I'll be happy to help.
  • rookrook
    Posts: 1,807
    A worthwhile read:    The Testosterone Syndrome, Dr. Eugene Shippen, M.D.
  • TomasheenTomasheen
    Posts: 257
    I have an HRT every ten weeks or so. It is given by injection in the bum. I have no doubt that without it, I would feel very low and depressed. I happened to miss out once for a prolonged period and found that I had no inclination to masturbate or stimulate myself. Efforts came to nothing much and I really began to feel "old". I am 76. With the HRT , brand name Nebido, I have no trouble having and sustaining hard erections. My genitals have become revitalised with sensitivity and I have a renewed friendship with my old friend, my penis! Also, I have noticed that I am far more aware of my sexual feelings every day. An erotic thought or idea, brings on an erection. Maybe I will go into the next life with a really stiff dick. It will cause chaos up there amoungst all those religious clerics and nuns walking about with their heads down and their hands held piously across their chests !
  • isvaraisvara
    Posts: 1,009
    Your triumphal entry, a whole man, will be impressive and surprising! Bit sad about the rest.
  • soladoresoladore
    Posts: 5
    I'm also interested in the retiring process coupled with HRT. I am 30 and have around 350 total and have for as long as I remember ( I've been tested previously by and ends who isn't know what he was doing and I was so young I didn't know any different)

    Does any one know of any good docs in Seattle who will file ins?

    Did proper hrt when diled in make a difference with rewireing?
  • euphemisticeuphemistic
    Posts: 958
    I found an alternative to raising my testosterone level without replacement injections, gels or pellets. My baseline total testosterone level was measured at 209 and 238 on successive tests, free testosterone at 42 and 45. I was 65 yo when first tested but I suspect I've probably had low T for many years judging by my low libido. I considered T replacement but was concerned about the side effects. I consulted an endocrinologist who put me on Clomid (Clomiphene Citrate). My total T doubled and tripled to 494 and 606 on successive tests, free T also doubled to 71 and 92! My understanding of how this works is that it stimulates T production in the testes hormonally and prevents the conversion of T to estrogen. I'm very happy with the results. I'm glad I don't have to inject T in my glutes, it's very awkward and hard to inject. I know because I inject T replacement in my boyfriend's glutes and I have to use both hands.

    Here's an explanation :

    "How Clomid Works in Men
    To understand how clomiphene works, you need to know how the pituitary controls the making of testosterone in the testis. Testosterone is made by Leydig cells in the testis, which I explained in my last post. The pituitary releases a hormone called luteinizing hormone (“LH”) that stimulates the Leydig cells to make testosterone. Testosterone is converted to the female hormone estrogen, (which I also explained in my last post,) and estrogen tells the pituitary to stop making more LH. This kind of negative feedback system is common when it comes to how hormones work. It’s just like a thermostat and heater. As the room gets warmer, the thermostat sends less electricity to the heater. When the room gets colder, the thermostat sends more electricity to the heater.

    Clomiphene works by blocking estrogen at the pituitary. The pituitary sees less estrogen, and makes more LH. More LH means that the Leydig cells in the testis make more testosterone.

    As I explained in my last post, giving testosterone to a man does just the opposite. The pituitary thinks that the testis is making plenty of testosterone, and LH falls. As a result, the testis stops making testosterone, and the usually high levels of testosterone in the testis fall to the lower level in the blood.

    So clomiphene is a way to increase testosterone in the blood and the testis at the same time. It preserves testis size and function while increasing blood testosterone."
  • soladoresoladore
    Posts: 5
    Ah yes, I've taken clomid before. I had some strange vision side effects, and I readily convert to E2. I can feel it in my nipples. Due to the uncontrolled e2 elevation that is being antagonized by the clomid :/
  • euphemisticeuphemistic
    Posts: 958
    @soladore what is E2? Estrogen?
  • RSilvaRSilva
    Posts: 30
    I am 28 years old and I always had low libido, I masturbate less than once every 2 weeks.
    My testosterone level last year were around 350, which my doctor said they were ok.
    He gave me testosterone gel to apply lest year just because I
    kept mentioning my sexual problems but my testosterone level actually fell
    to 320 or something over 2 months.

    I also can't get erect from thoughts or keep an erection more than some seconds without stimulation (in penetrations even with viagra I lose a bit of the erection and it makes it hard to penetrate).

    I've been taking anti-depressants for 2 years now, but even before that my libido was very low. I think it made it worse, but I don't think it's the main cause as it existed before that. My aneros sessions is where I feel it the most, before the meds I had *some* results, but recently I feel absolutely nothing in sessions.

    Many times I wonder if I had a higher testosterone level things would work better (both in erections and aneros/arousal), and if that is my problem.
    I'm waiting to get an appointment with an urologist to see what he has to say.
  • soladoresoladore
    Posts: 5
    Euphemistic sorry for the delay, yes specifically estradiol. RSilva, your story is close to mine. I started theory at 26, I'm 29 now. I was around 350 total when I started therapy due to low libido and brain fog. My numbers never got higher though androgel and never knew why. Now I've learned a great deal of info about TRT and realize that I was converting readily to estrogen. I wasn't on antidepressants though. They are well known to create sexual side effects. I quit therapy about a year and a half ago because treatment was going no where and it was becoming increasingly obvious that my endocrinologist had no idea what he was doing. I actually used clomid to cycle off because my LH and FSH were pretty suppressed. I can't wait to start therapy but I'm trying to find a good doctor in Seattle. It's been kind of difficult finding a good one. I wonder if there will be an improvement in my journey to the super o.
  • isvaraisvara
    Posts: 1,009
    Blood Results:    
    I am 76 (yikes) but don't feel it - still work!  
    Free Testosterone 410 pmol/L (down from 421 in 2013)
    GP happy and I take .25ml of  5% Andromen Forte
    PSA 1.8 ug/L- going down from 2.2 in 2013  - good

    Sensible and balanced - Worth a read:
  • soladoresoladore
    Posts: 5
    Very interesting article. He describes the importance of combing an AI with any therpy well. I didn't see much mention of HCG but either way very informative.