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  • BigOluverBigOluver
    Posts: 187
    delete
  • MMO_RPGlolMMO_RPGlol
    Posts: 242
    Dude the fuck did I just read? That was the oddest mixture of heartwarming and disturbing. I guess its just because I could never imagine in 100 billion years that happening with my dad and myself. But I mean that's amazing that you were able to share that with him.

    I often feel genuinely bad for my dad and for all the males in my family because I know they could never even dream of these heights we reach. I wish there was something I could say , but sexuality is something I've been taught to be ashamed of in my family.

    Its sad that it is this way though. I really wish that honest discussion was a possibility...
  • ctusserctusser
    Posts: 95
    This sounds like a disturbing fantasy. I hope you find mental help.
  • While I cannot imagine any circumstance where I could even discuss aneros with my father or even my brothers nevermind sharing a session, I appreciate your closeness and relationship with your father. Maybe it will be the younger generation that spreads the word and introduces prostrate massage to the older. I'm happy that you found the mp3s on my site useful. Do you talk about everything with your father? Sounds like he understands you being gay.

    @ctusser, were you serious with your comment? I found it rude.
  • brine
    Posts: 220
    I'm quite impressed, BigO. 

    I know that it was more than just a sexual sharing, it was an opening up in your relationship. 

    Congratulations.

    Brian
  • BigOluverBigOluver
    Posts: 187
    @euphemistic Yes we talk talked very little before. But now were like new found buddies. This whole weekend have just been great. I thank you for those mp3's. They really helped with the relaxation part of the session. I just want to thank everyone for the feedback. It was you all who gave me the courage to finnaly say something to him.
  • ctusserctusser
    Posts: 95
    @euphemistic   Yep, quite serious. I'm not afraid to call a spade a spade.  I'm sure there are many who read this bullshit and thought the same; maybe I'm the only one with balls enough to say it.  This poor man needs help, it really makes me wonder what kind of horrible shit happened to him in his childhood.  

    Would you think it a beautiful story if a man told about buying his daughter a sybian so they could ride off into the sunset together in orgasmic bliss?  Sick, just sick!

    This will be a great thread to weed out the nut jobs so I'll know who to ignore.  Please do the same for me, I would prefer to discuss issues with sane  people.
  • newguy8762
    Posts: 198
    So this is basically a story about having a circle jerk with your dad? Your dad should have known better even if you found it exhilarating. I know I'll be really unpopular in saying this with some but I don't care. This borders on sexual abuse, no matter how wonderful you found it. There are lines you don't cross sexually...you don't have sex with you dad, you mom, your grandma or grandpa or brother or sister or your children or your grand children (or an animal), no matter how fulfilling it may seem. You just don't. It's called sexual abuse and and in your case, it borders on incest. I don't want you to feel condemned. I think you need counseling because something about your home environment is totally off. I have two sons, one is a young adult and one a teen and although I would definitely share with them about Aneros and prostate massage, I would never, ever do with them what your dad did with you.
  • BigOluverBigOluver
    Posts: 187
    @newguy8762 I did not touch my father and there was plenty of space between us while we rode. We did not have intercourse or any of that. I respect my self more then than that. 

    Also @ctusser I did not insert it in him and did nothing to be ashamed of. We shared energies as two grown men. That is all. I do not have to explain my self to anyone but this is a open forum and I do not like being pictured as being abused or doing the abusing. 
  • twlltintwlltin
    Posts: 569
    ctusser said:

    Would you think it a beautiful story if a man told about buying his daughter a sybian so they could ride off into the sunset together in orgasmic bliss?  Sick, just sick!



    What about mother/daughter, and a "rabbit"?

    We welcome all sorts here, and the only thing we do not tolerate is intolerance.
  • I personally do not see anything at all odd with this story.  Remember at times in history it was considered "unnatural" for a man to have long hair.  At other times it deemed unnatural for men to cut their hair.
  • twlltintwlltin
    Posts: 569
    "If the world were a logical place, men would ride side saddle."
    -- Rita Mae Brown
  • isvara
    Posts: 576
    @bigOluver, thank you for sharing this experience. It would be very rare in today's culture but I think not so uncommon in the past. It seem for some of us there was perhaps too much detail! I certainly cannot imaging it happening with my father or my son. However I appreciate your sharing and was able to question my own reactions which was most valuable. Thank you. It sounds so much better than a men's shed!!
  • MMO_RPGlolMMO_RPGlol
    Posts: 242
    @twlltin can you explain that quote? For the life of me I can not figure out what that's implying.
  • twlltintwlltin
    Posts: 569

    @twlltin can you explain that quote? For the life of me I can not figure out what that's implying.



    I was responding to bryeinabox's comment about differing attitudes to maleness, and showing that some conventions do not make sense if you think about them dispassionately and logically.
  • XilehXileh
    Posts: 353
    The one thing I value so much about the people who share on this forum, is the resistance to impart judgement. The strength of this group is support. Sometimes it is frank support, but it is given honestly, with sensitivity, and without judgement.

    Too much of society is about dividing us through judgement when acceptance can make us stronger. This forum hosts some of the most learned people I have ever encountered. Collectively, they openly provide diverse experience and support that is not offered elsewhere, and would be judged harshly by most.

    As a member, I hope to rise to the challenge of acceptance, established by those who have accepted and supported me, by accepting and supporting others. I will strive to listen, and resist judgement.

    Xileh
  • Xileh said:

    The one thing I value so much about the people who share on this forum, is the resistance to impart judgement. The strength of this group is support. Sometimes it is frank support, but it is given honestly, with sensitivity, and without judgement.

    Too much of society is about dividing us through judgement when acceptance can make us stronger. This forum hosts some of the most learned people I have ever encountered. Collectively, they openly provide diverse experience and support that is not offered elsewhere, and would be judged harshly by most.

    As a member, I hope to rise to the challenge of acceptance, established by those who have accepted and supported me, by accepting and supporting others. I will strive to listen, and resist judgement.

    Xileh




    Excellent statement. I too really like the openness and acceptance of the people here. Its something very rare in life. I've really only seen it in the furry community. Yeah, I am a straight furry btw =^.^=

    EDIT
    Although, BigOluver's story here was one that I find hard to believe. Its something I wouldn't imagine happening in a million years. I would never do that with my father (or another male), but I can't judge others. I guess if it brought them closer together, then, cool. 
  • I have made it a point never to look at my two sons' naked bodies.  I have never seen their genitals, except when they were babies and I changed their diapers. 

     I think that tolerance can only go so far, we know it has limits.  Those limits are not discussed here, but we all know that certain things are taboo, and rightfully so.  Some things are illegal, if not everywhere, somewhere.  Since this forum knows no national borders, we must respect that there are legal, ethical, and moral limitations to what we can discuss here, no matter how tolerant we claim to be. I think it is prudent to keep these facts in mind when we decide to post personal information.  Anonymous posts can and will be traced by law enforcement if reports of certain illegal activity are posted here.  We are not free to shout "fire" in a crowded theater, when we know  there is no fire.

    I am not judging anyone, only trying to see both sides of this.  Like with almost anything, there are two sides to this.
  • BigOluverBigOluver
    Posts: 187
    I just need someone to write down and list the wrong things that were done in this post between me and my father. We did not touch each other, we did not kiss and I don't look at my father that way. Were men, we have dicks and we have ass's. You guys make it seem like a circle jerk has never happened. How many men here never jerked off with there college buddies on a late night. We were separate the whole time and never touched each other's privates so what's the problem.
  • MMO_RPGlolMMO_RPGlol
    Posts: 242
    Not trying to start anything, BigO, but I have neeeeevvvvveeeerrrr jerked off with another guy. Just realize that for some of the more conservative guys on this form, what you did is beyond unimaginable. If you are comfortable with what you did, great! If they're not comfortable with it, great. Everyone has the right to feel the way they want. That personally was a bit too much for me.

    I am trying my hardest to see where you are coming from, so try to see where we're coming from. But I mean its an anonymous forum so I don't really care either way.
  • newguy8762
    Posts: 198
    So what I hear you intimating is that IF you and your dad had kissed or touched each other, THAT would have been too far (I.e wrong)? So, as long as your dad was just masturbating and having orgasms WITH you it's great?

    I am not a prude and I've had my share of sexual adventures in my youth. And, yes, I have jerked off with friends. It's not uncommon. But, never, by any stretch of my wildest imagination, would I have ever entertained doing a performance for or with my dad. The line making child/parent sexual relations forbidden is not a right-wing, Christian conservative value. Even historical cultures that advocated pederasty didn't advocate fathers doing it with their sons. Why is is that few cultures...I would say none...in human history have put forth a positive view of child/parent sexual involvement? We're they all missing out on something?

    My post to you was motivated, not by intolerance, but rather concern and compassion.

    I guess those with a "no intolerance" policy here are willing to break that absolute when they view something as intolerant...which undermines the logic of their entire value system. If you're going to tolerate everything, you ought to tolerate views you totally disagree with. Hence, "no intolerance" really means "if I don't like what you say, 'Shut Up!' "
  • I am not a lawyer, but I understand law somewhat, as we all should if we desire to be law abiding citizens of our various countries.  This forum does not require that anyone attest to being a minimum age, as most sex sites do, whether they have visual porn, or stories.  Most porn stories make a point, even fictional stories, of declaring that the ages of the people in the stories are 18 and up, that is,  when the story involves father/son, father/daughter, mother/son, mother/daughter, etc,.  Why do they do that? Because IT IS ILLEGAL IN MOST COUNTRIES TO EVEN DISCUSS SEXUAL INVOLVEMENT WITH MINORS, EVEN FICTIONALLY. Since this site is open to even minors, I think that the sexual content should not include descriptions of sexual involvement between relatives, close relatives, especially if the description does not include the disclaimer that the people involved are over 18.  This can't just be assumed, it must be stated, in my opinion.  We don't want to endanger the wonderful forum we have here, and we want to keep it open.  I always ask the age of anyone I private chat with, if we are going to discuss anything that might be inappropriate for the open chat or open forum.  Too many guys are in jail for taking liberties with young people who appear to be adults, but are not legally.  

    We owe it to those who may visit this site and are minors to keep the forum clean, and in my opinion, the post that started this thread does not fit that description.  Such talk should be in private.  Otherwise the owners of the web site need to make it so that only those over 18, and who attest to that, can enter the forum.
  • isvara
    Posts: 576
    Tricky, there are a number of issues here but there are other posts that advocate the taking of illegal substances, to enhance the Aneros experience. Much of the negatives responses above should equally apply to these posts and replies. But there is a deafening silence!
    It also interesting and sad that the USA has the highest prisoner to population ratio in the world. Not a good example.
  • newguy8762
    Posts: 198
    One last thought and I'm out of gas on this particular post: for those taking a "no harm, no foul" approach to BigO's evening with dad...
    I can think of a number of instances in which one person might want another person to do something that would be considered morally wrong by everyone on this site and it still wouldn't justify the actions of the person doing the wrong, even if the recipient wanted it. For example:
    • Someone with an illness, physical or mental condition causing a lot of pain and suffering who wants someone else to kill them so they could escape the pain. The person being killed really wants to die. So where's the harm? The person who would kill them we would call a murderer.
    • Someone who wants someone to break into their house and steal stuff or burn it down so they can commit insurance fraud. The recipient certainly wants someone to commit a crime against them. Does that make it "okay" for either?
    See, both these instances and the one in question here (jacking off with dad) require some kind of value system to evaluate whether they are right or wrong. If there are no values, there are no rights or wrongs, and all we're doing is arguing about preferences. If this is the case, the governing powers that be are used to force everyone to adhere to the values they want followed or suffer punishment of some kind for stepping out of line. 

    If, however, there are self-evident, objectives standards of right and wrong, then it's not intolerant to point those out and call into question those who advocate for the overthrow of such on the basis of "no harm, no foul". Examples of such self-evident truths would be:
    • People have a right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. It's wrong to try to deprive someone of these things. 
    • It's wrong to murder someone
    • It's wrong to falsely accuse someone of something they didn't do
    • It's wrong to steal what belongs to someone else
    • It's wrong to rape someone
    • It's wrong to take advantage of someone for sexual or other gratification 
    • It's wrong to be a duche bag and abandon your children to pursue your own selfish desires just cause you're tired of being a dad or mom
    • It's wrong to have sex with or in the presence of your child/parent/brother/sister
    PLEASE READ THIS PART BEFORE ANYONE ACCUSES ME OF INTOLERANCE AGAIN:
    As someone  who was sexually molested by an older male when I was a teenager, I have first-hand experience with what it's like to be taken advantage of sexually by someone much older. I can assure you, I didn't want this dude's advances, even though I was sexually active as a teen, enjoyed sex and didn't carry a ton of hang-ups around about my sexually. I became sexually aroused in the process of this guy pushing himself on me yet I didn't want to have sex with him. But, I felt helpless to stop him, even though I told him to stop. He refused to stop. This incident happened in my parents house and I was afraid of raising a commotion with this guy because I knew if my dad came down and saw what this guy was doing, he would kill the guy and my dad would go to jail and I didn't want that. So, I just took this guys sexual abuse. 

    The fact is, I was raped by a much older guy who knew what he was doing. Turns out, I was one of a very long string of vulnerable, naive teen age guys this individual took advantage of. He clearly broke the law and should have gone to jail. In today's situation, he would have. 

    I have no lingering shame or self-loathing or hatred of homosexuals because of this. It was a long time ago and I know I'm not the only guy to ever go through something like this. At least 20% of young men are molested and those numbers are probably much lower than actually occurs. Much goes unreported because of the shame involved with a male being sexually molested by another male. And the VAST MAJORITY of this abuse comes at the hands of someone the young man knows or is related to. Age always trumps youth in sexual matters and the situation is even more complex when the older individual is an uncle, older brother, father or grand father. 

    I'm not in any way trying to judge you or condemn you. I'm trying to point out that even if you wanted this to happen, it was a form of sexual abuse. Your dad took advantage of you, whether you know it or not; whether you enjoyed the experience or not. This is no different than a high school girl who goes to a party and things get out of hand and she ends up having sex with a college-aged guy who pushes himself on her and takes advantage of her inexperience...only this is worse, this is your dad participating in a masturbation show with you. 
  • @ Isvara, this is primarily a non erotic sex site, meaning the main purpose is information and education, not titillation.  It is open to everyone, all ages.  Descriptions of sex acts between adults, which viewing another person masturbating qualifies as, whether there is touching or not, do not belong in this forum when it is referencing close relatives without the disclaimer that the close relatives are not minors.  This is done throughout the porn industry even for fictional stories.  Also, if this forum is going to be a place to describe sex acts between consenting adults (not minors), there still needs to be a requirement that a person attests to being at least 18 to enter the site, IMHO.  Sex and drugs are two different things.  However, there are places where marijuana use is legal.  As far as I know there are no places in the civilized world where it is legal to have sex with minors.  That is why I think the disclaimers are needed
  • MMO_RPGlolMMO_RPGlol
    Posts: 242
    @raymitchell, true, but the definition of a minor varies quite a bit around the world.

    Can we just keep it classy on this form and not get into these stupid arguments? Thanks
  • @MMO_RPGlol
    Thanks for the suggestion, I appreciate it.  What was not classy was the original post, in my opinion. 

    Calling the agruments stupid, well, you are entitled to your opinion.  Tolerance.  

    Since we agree that minors come at different ages, it is still my advice that anyone posting material that involves close relatives should state that the people involved are not minors in their jurisdiction, to protect themselves, and by extension, to protect this website.  People make what amount to stupid arguments in courts everyday, when they seek to justify their behavior.  They even call the law stupid. But it is still the law.

    Tolerance means we can all express our opinions without fear.  Opinions are opinions.  But when we post narratives of action, we are not just expressing our opinions or beliefs, we are broadcasting what we have done.  What we have done may be right or wrong, legal or illegal.  I am just trying to say that we better be damn sure that what we post is legal, for our own sakes and for the good of this website.  I just want everyone to remember that things do sometimes get out of hand, and if we start going down the road of encouraging posts like the one that started this thread, we need to be aware of the possibilities so there are no regrets later on.  What if a minor posts a narrative like the one at the top of this thread?

    If we fail to make that distinction, we do this web site a disservice.
  • FYI
    Here is the terms you all signed up for including minimum age limit.


    Terms of Service
    You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this community to post any material which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violative of any law. You agree not to post any copyrighted material unless the copyright is owned by you.
    We at this community also reserve the right to reveal your identity (or whatever information we know about you) in the event of a complaint or legal action arising from any message posted by you. We log all internet protocol addresses accessing this web site.
    Please note that advertisements, chain letters, pyramid schemes, and solicitations are inappropriate on this community.
    We reserve the right to remove any content for any reason or no reason at all. We reserve the right to terminate any membership for any reason or no reason at all.
    You must be at least 13 years of age to use this service.


    It is clear that many of you do not know or have never read these terms.
    My understanding of these terms of service are if you look at the list of stuff in red that about 99% of what is posted on the forum is in violation to the terms of service... go figure! (It all depends on your point of view)
    It is clear that the author of this original post (of which I did not read) now wishes he had never posted it and maybe feeling alienated . Please make the effort to at least make your piece with the author publicly or privately. As a forum community we are all in this together.
    Enough said.
  • artformartform
    Posts: 1,477
    Thanks bnw!! :D

    Excellent contribution. newguy8762, I appreciate your list and posting your personal hurting story. Thank you very much.

    There are a lot of interesting points of view expressed in this thread, and there are significant issues being raised, yet overall I believe there is a tragedy of "rush to judgement" in far too much of this.

    To help perhaps clear the air and the issues that DO NOT pertain to the circumstances of the actual people and events that occurred I offer this reframing of the presentation of the facts as I know them.

    • BigOluver in NOT a minor, he is in his mid-20s.
    • His father overheard BigO's sounds during one of his sessions in the privacy of his bedroom, by chance in their home, found out what the toy/tool was and purchased one for himself.
    • BigO similarly found that his father had discovered and taken up the Aneros journey, yet was not aware of the best practices and techniques.
    • An appropriate time came for them to acknowledge to each other, and BigO, an experienced and successful Anerosian man, offered advice to his father. BigO has coached others, and experienced coaching with older men here at Aneros prior to this event.

    None of these acts are illegal in Canada, where our Prime Minister in the 1970s famously said; "The State has no place in the bedrooms of the Nation!" and our laws reflect that.

    • We are NOT talking about sex with a minor at all.
    • We are NOT talking about active touching sexual acts here at all.

    I hope that we can all cool down and be fully responsible for our opinions. I appreciate the concerns and cautions of many of these posts, yet without asking for clarification and facts, too many are truly a "rush to judgment".

    WE must ALL be responsible for our opinions, and be prepared to back them with relevant facts and examples. These extensive misunderstandings and speculative over-kill have been very hurtful and outside the open, honest, trusting nature of this community, in my humble opinion.

    What if BigO was a son who knew that Aneros use and orginial purpose is as a scientifically designed therapeutic device, and knew his father could benefit from using this helpful device through the High Island Health site, rather than Aneros? And because of his own practice, he knew how to help his father develop the proper technique sooner and more easily?

    I have been a friend of BigO for some time and we have chatted about many dimensions of the Aneros practice and potential. From my knowledge of the events leading up to and this event itself, I do not believe that anything morally or ethically wrong happened during their parallel separate sessions in this event. Nor anything illegal, in any reasonable jurisdiction.

    In my comment post in his blog, I celebrated and congratulated him on his manner of delicately working with his father to make their common knowledge of each other's activities, in the privacy of their individual bedrooms, a positive open honest knowledge between them, rather than furtive. So did the other three commenting Anerosians to date.

    • BigO's last statement in his wonderful blog post "FINALLY!!!!!!"  https://www.aneros.com/display-entry/?id=1607  is: "But this will be the last only time I ride with him. He's still my dad
    and even though he's my new buddy he's still my dad."


    I much appreciate braveneworld's act of bringing the Terms of Use here into this thread and his advocacy of a reconciliation by each critic with BigO.

    BigO is a sophisticated Anerosian and well into the energies levels potential of the higher levels of this practice. He has made positive contributions to this community. He deserves to be fully welcomed back here now.

    all the very best learning and sharing at all levels appropriate to this practice at the heart of an emerging revolution in masculine enlightenment around the world all

    artform

    as we rewire
    we are all reconnected






  • twlltintwlltin
    Posts: 569
    I can only echo what artform just said.