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Is what we do with Aneros considered masturbation?
  • This has been on my mind the last couple of days. Is using the aneros devices (if you don't include penile touch) considered masturbation?
  • Yes. Why wouldn't it be? You're doing solo sex.

  • isvaraisvara
    Posts: 1,036
    A tricky question. I think it would be helpful to put the question into a context.
    Masturbation is any manual stimulation of genital organs for sexual pleasure on self or on an another.
    Pleasure does not necessary mean for a male getting an erection or orgasm or ejaculation. Manual I think refers to using hands. Masturbation has huge "sin" overtones that makes it difficult to use the word in a sensible way. For example: Is a hands free O masturbation? Interesting. Or a "nip stim" O masturbation? The non manual possibilities are endless. If an Aneros is used to strengthen the anal sphincters to control hemorrhoids and if feel nice - sexual pleasure - is this a form of masturbation! If it comes down to intention it makes it even more difficult as it seems that all human communications have sexual overtones - part of the mechanics the success of the human species. It also seems regular sexual release/relief is highly beneficial for health and happiness.
  • Yes
  • isvaraisvara
    Posts: 1,036
    Can you share why it has been on your mind. The way the question is framed it sounds as if it is a concern.
  • rumelrumel
    Posts: 2,492
    Merriam-Webster's definition of masturbation is ": erotic stimulation especially of one's own genital organs commonly resulting in orgasm and achieved by manual or other bodily contact exclusive of sexual intercourse, by instrumental manipulation, occasionally by sexual fantasies, or by various combinations of these agencies"

    I agree with @isvara. it's "A tricky question", I think the answer(s) are YES, NO & MAYBE.

    For most of the members of this Forum, the answer is probably YES, as they consider their Aneros' manipulation instruments for erotic stimulation resulting in orgasm.

    For some members of this Forum and/or the High Island Health Forum the answer is probably NO as they consider their Aneros' manipulation instruments for therapeutic stimulation resulting in healthier prostate function.

    For a few of our members the answer is probably MAYBE as they consider their Aneros' manipulation instruments for root chakra stimulation resulting in opening of energy channels in the body. This, in turn, may lead to increased body/spiritual awareness and holistic health. Anerosessions may be described as erotic meditations with pleasurable body sensations as a side benefit.

    For some members (like me) I cycle through all three answers comfortably, accepting the state I'm in when I'm in it. It's great to have the options!

    image Good Vibes to You ! image
  • Umm yer what rumel said! he put it better than what I could say it.

  • @bsmith14 , I should bloody well hope so, otherwise I just spent a chunk of change quite poorly. :)
  • isvaraisvara
    Posts: 1,036
    You answer is so very good and sensible. I love the options I can fit to the occasion I wish to celebrate.
  • Is it so important....  
    you can call it body discovering... lol
  • LinumLinum
    Posts: 227
    We have often referred to aneros and other multi-orgasmic experiences as "out of our frame of reference", and "beyond definition", and I suspect that although it could be thought of as masturbation (if one stretches the definition sideways - considerable sideways), I think it probably isn't what the word was intended to relate.  After all, most people are not aware that men can have multiple orgasms via the anal/prostate/nipple/other routes, and would not have considered this in the development of the definition of the word - in the same way that having wet dreams would not have been masturbation either.  By contrast, they were very aware that stimulating the male genitals would lead to at least one wet orgasm.  Since the aneros isn't strictly stimulating the genitals, I don't think the term masturbation would have ever been intended to apply, whereas achieving dry or wet orgasms by "masturbating" one's genitals does.  Isn't it about the bodily location of the act, not the specific outcome, that masturbation is referring to?

    Having said that, definitions can mutate over time, as I suspect it has done for us anerosians.  However, it is not immediately obvious that this is masturbation, and as I said at the outset, the definition needs stretching sideways in order to encompass our relatively new-found experiences.
  • Why the negative connotations with associating Aneros with masturbation?

    For me it's MASTURBATION.  I ride to 'get off' and I love it.  Blowing my wad isn't my focus any more, total body experience is and so glad I've expanded my mind and bodies sexual response.  No negativity here, just good phenomenal sexual experiences getting better and better!!
  • The wikipedia article on Masturbation and the Catholic Church says it all, especially:

    "The Catholic Church teaches that "Masturbation constitutes a grave moral disorder" and that "both the Magisterium of the Church—in the course of a constant tradition—and the moral sense of the faithful have declared without hesitation that masturbation is an intrinsically and seriously disordered act.""

    I am so glad I wasn't raised Roman Catholic, but I entered adolescence in the early 1960's. I lived in a small town in Connecticut in those years when the discussion of sexual matters were mostly taboo and not part of polite conversation. I discovered masturbation by accident at age 13. The day that I had my first orgasm and ejaculation of semen was one of the most memorable experiences in my life. When my parents discovered this, my father was shocked and my mother was getting ready to hit me. My parents at that time changed doctors for me. I was assigned to a doctor who had recently retired from the U.S. Navy. He was thoroughly condemning and disapproving of my developing sexuality. He refused to answer my questions on sex and sexuality. I think he was homophobic.

    So I decided to go on my own quiet way in finding out for myself answers to the questions I had above. Not only was masturbation pleasurable for me then, but it was self-affirming. My experience agrees with both @mcgphil and @varmint's experience. Both males and females use masturbation to learn about their bodies and themselves better. It has been found that masturbators make better lovers as well. 

    The Aneros massagers can be used as tools for pleasure, masturbation, and self-discovery. For me, starting to use the Aneros last June was one of the best things that has happened to me in recent years.

    Also there is an expression of Getting into the Zone in sports. When you do that, you have a great game. The same is true with sexual intercourse and masturbation. Experienced masturbators have an expression called Zoning which is analogous to edging, riding the edge of ejaculatory inevitability. Guys who Zone while masturbating fall into a masturbatory trance during which they can edge for one, two, or even several hours, before they allow themselves an ejaculatory orgasm of semen! In the last week or so, I have been Getting into the Zone with the Progasm which produces for me tons of pleasure. Right now I aim to focus getting into the Zone where I may experience ultimately the Super-O. In a sense, I am engaging in a form of masturbation, or as @varmint says, experiencing "good phenomenal sexual experiences getting better and better!!" :D :) In a way, I have become a Progasm slut! :D :D :D :) :) 

  • isvaraisvara
    Posts: 1,036
    I want at all costs to be respectful to both sides of this thread. The real problem our culture faces is that masturbation is so ingrained as wrong that it is very hard to shake one's self free from this judgement. It is condemned by the puritanical elements and the traditional religious elements. Most of us are influence by one side or the other or both. At the same time it is almost a universal practice. In the catholic tradition masturbation is a greater sin than raping a nun. Adultery is much less a sin and fornication hardly counts. So fornicate not masturbate. But you get caught there as contraception is also a sin! I can see why this strange hierarchy happened when we acknowledge that the traditional church comes out of a long turbulent moral history. This is not a criticism of the canon law but rather pointing out most people in the western world do not have a healthy approach to the wonders and needs of their bodies. This is so sad. And we pay a high price for this confusion as sexual frustration lies behind much of the bad and hurtful things that happen. Perhaps we should not use the word masturbate at all as it is tainted with too many conflicting ideas, rather inquire of each other, "do you celebrate your life often". There is so much to discover, so much to find out and so little time to do it.
  • rookrook
    Posts: 1,833
    [Isvara said:]   "... most people in the western world do not have a healthy approach to the wonders and needs of their bodies."

    Exceptionally well phrased and remarkably similar in thought to what a g/f in Japan (who, circa 1957, nick-named me "rook") once said.  " have hesitations about something that is a normal physiological thing like breathing and eating."

    ...far cry from my pastor's and father's reference to masturbation as, "self-abuse."

    blessings guys.... rook
  • OhhhYes indeed! I was brought up a Roman Catholic in Ireland . My first experience was a dry orgasm at the age if 13. I had been washing "it" and suddenly it happened. Standing up much harder and pumping out nothing for several seconds. I was terrified. I had committed my first mortal sin. Some time later it happened again and I went to confession. I remember telling the priest I had committed the sin of "self-abuse". He was really severe and I received the admonishment and penance. That awful term, "self-abuse" was a heavily guilt loaded concept. This horrid sin would undermine my intellect and weaken my personality.  Others would see it in my furtive hesitant looks. It would become a hardened habit that would become a soul -destroying  obsession.

    I spent years in fear of eternal damnation. We were taught in those days to dwell on the concept of  "Hell for all eternity". I well remember the awful stern voice of the priest at the men's retreat (a week of nightly sermons), proclaiming loudly.that  "....Souls were dropping into Hell fire as leaves from the Autunm trees all  because of sins of impurity?"

    "Masturbation" is a horrid word with undertones of secret, hiding, shameful, and unmanly lurking in it's essence. Now "wanking" is somewhat funny and has some humour in it. A female friend and I were visiting a seaside place once, a place of my childhood where I had wandered about the rocks and pools alone by day.  Coming to a secluded spot, I said to her. "See down there, that's where I often went and wanked myself silly for hours". She went into fits of laughter which continued to erupt every now and then for several days!. I'd say "What now?"  "You!" she'd say, "The thought of you wanking yourself silly!!!!

    I now use the term "pleasuring myself" and relish the idea and bask in the warm sweetness of those delightful feelings.

  • LinumLinum
    Posts: 227
    Varmint - what "negative connotations" are you referring to?
  • There's good reason why almost all religions are 'down on spilling your seed' and 'a  man must not lay as a woman' mentality.....   They (the religion and it's leadership) need more canon fodder.    It's that simple. 

    They stipulate that any sexual act MUST be for making babies (ergo: more new people that are brainwashed into that religion).  Most religions are about controlling large masses of people which wields a lot of political power over the so called secular politicians.   The larger the mass, the larger the influence.

    Most religions talk about some sort of god and afterlife that one needs to adhere to a strict code of conduct or else they end up going to some type of eternal torture,   And yet many of these religions avoid talking about real spirituality and wonder...   it's all about business and guilt slinging.

    Let's face it, 'a  man must not lay as a woman', has more meaning than the homosexuality aspect....   Statistically speaking it might be shown that with a man on top (missionary position) that the likelihood of a woman's impregnation is higher than if the situation is reversed.  "God forbid" one's horneyness should be shared with someone of the same (and unfertilized) sex or even worse, selfishly saving it for a solo.

            Any one remember the Python skit about Every Sperm Is Sacred?

    Is having a hands free Aneros session masturbation?   Looking at the larger picture, it really doesn't matter!

  • Love_isLove_is
    Posts: 1,782
    What a great thread. I've been enjoying reading everyones posts here. :) 

    Even though I was not traditionally brought up in a repressive religion, I believe my parents Catholic upbringing leftovers, and also general USA puritanical cultural training spilled over into me as a child. So reading these posts has made me continue to ponder my own guilt and shame issues concerning my sexuality and experience around it. Good stuff to eventually work past it. Why should we be ashamed of the natural and normal needs and desires that everyone experiences in their bodies? 

    Certainly easier to ask, than to actually remove the shame and guilt part. That takes time and likely self love and acceptance.
  • isvaraisvara
    Posts: 1,036
    The real question to ask is:
    Not is it right or wrong, but does it work or not.
    That is does it benefit you, does it benefit other people?
    Funnily enough masturbation ticks all the boxes.
    A happier and healthier self a more contented and healthier society.
    Religion would be group celebration of life (I don't mean group masturbation!). The Aneros is a multi purpose tool to assist us to be whole males.
  • Here we go again with a "religious" thread in a site devoted to male sexual self-pleasure.I hope nobody gets mad at me for responding directly on this topic.

    I can identify with many of those who say they were raised to feel a lot of guilt about masturbating. Although I wasn
    t raised in a very religious home and my dad gave me complete freedom to masturbate as a teen, I became an Evangelical Christian in my later teens...and now hold the position the Bible (and God) have NOTHING to say about the subject, other than asking us to abstain from lust (i.e. mental imagery, fantasy, pornography and other related practices) in the process of enjoying sexual pleasure as an individual. In other words, I don't think God cares if we wank or not.

    It's been said that 95% of all men masturbate and the other 5% lie about it. In my experience, this is true. As a married man, I hold to the Biblical view that my body is not my own but belongs to my wife for her pleasure and her body belongs to me for my pleasure. This is what the Bible actually teaches Christians...that we should not deny one another sexually in marriage but should enjoy ourselves in the fullest sexual sense. We are instructed not to abstain from pleasuring one another sexually except for a short time for the purpose of prayer and fasting. Sexual pleasure in a Christian marriage is to be the norm. The Christian life is to be filled with sexual pleasure, not just for the procreation of children, but to glue a man and wife together and to enjoy one another's bodies in every sense.

    The passage most often sited to prohibit masturbation comes from the Old Testament and deals with a man who engaged in intercourse with his dead brother's wife and as he ejaculated, pulled out and "spilled his seed" on the ground. The Bible says God was displeased and killed the man. Why? Because he spilled his cum on the ground? No. He was killed because he was refusing his responsibility, according to the custom of the time, to raise up children for his deceased brother. He was using his brother's wife to get his rocks off, unwilling to fulfill his duty. It had nothing to do with his sexual pleasuring himself and everything to do with his selfish self-gratification.

    That is a principle for those of us who are married to follow...we should not be seeking to gratify ourselves at the exclusion of our spouses. You don't need to buy into Christian values and morals to know this is a good principle to live by. Those who seek exclusively their own pleasure aren't mature enough for a relationship with another person.

    After becoming a Christian, I became involved in a Christian group where masturbation was frowned upon as sinful, but not what we would call a mortal sin. As time went on, it became clear I could not successfully overcome my desire to masturbate. Everywhere I went, there my penis was and it felt so good to rub one out. And I truly could masturbate without fantasizing about another person, just focusing on the good feelings in my penis.. Most other Christian men I know will admit, in very private and unguarded moments, they masturbate.

    At one point, I decided that I was not going to live in guilt, that I would probably continue to masturbate the rest of my life but that I would also still always enjoy sex with my spouse and that God was not too concerned about this. I have two sons, one now married and another a teen and I have raised them to never feel ashamed about their sexual urges and masturbating. I've encouraged them to learn while masturbating to prolong their orgasm to they can enjoy even greater sexual pleasure with their spouse. The only thing I've asked is what I believe God abstain from sex with another person prior to marriage and to avoid fantasy, lust and pornography. I think this is what a loving and Christian dad should do...endorse his children's sexuality but give them loving guidelines.

    Although I always enjoy sex with my wife, I have to admit sometimes I just enjoy squeezing one out on my own. And since I discovered the Aneros, I've been able to enjoy multiple orgasms without the refractory period at the end of a traditional ejaculatory orgasm and as a result, I'm hornier for sex with my wife after many Aneros sessions. Honestly, I think if more Christian men embraced their sexuality and discussed it more openly, as is done on this forum, there would be less stories of Christian men's sexual failings in the news. We can deny our sexual urges all we want, but it never minimizes them. It only, in fact, makes them stronger.

    So, yes, using an Aneros is masturbating but so what? If you are single, masturbation is a great, harmless way to explore your body and practice extending your pleasure so you can extend the pleasure of your spouse someday. And, you won"t get someone pregnant, won't get an STD and you won't be violating any law of God. And, if you're married, as long as you're fulfilling your commitment to your spouse, whack away.

    Okay, feel free to slam me for my blatant religious views now.
  • LinumLinum
    Posts: 227
    Masturbation (including our new broader definition of it to include the aneros and other MMO practices) is entirely normal, and should be without guilt.  I would say that there is nothing wrong with fantasies either - since what one thinks is not necessarily the same as what one does. Knowing the difference is an important lesson in life, and to shy away from what one thinks is to reduce the chances of learning that lesson.

    Religion has always sought to repress human sexuality, partly because if we were to follow our pre-religious (innate) urges, it is quite likely that everything would appear rather chaotic.  For example, there would be no way to know for sure the paternity of children, and therefore rights of inheritance. Religions knew early on, that in order to control humanity, one had to put a chain on sexuality. Severe strictures were required in an effort to prevent our innate urges, which just goes to show that they are STRONG urges, and when people inevitably transgressed, they then felt guilty.  Guilt is also passed on to one's children, and even if you don't share your parent's religious views, you are likely to inherit their lack of ease over matters sexual.

    The nonsense of it all is summed up neatly by the severely mixed up Leviticus:

    "Also thou shalt not approach unto a woman to uncover her nakedness, as long as she is apart for her uncleanness," - which basically means - Don't even look at a menstruating woman. 18:19 - OK guys - time to start feeling guilty once a month for just looking at your female partners while they are menstruating - and what about other women??????  Using the bible to inform one's morals is at best, a bit "pick and mix".

    Our urges and indeed our entire sexualities are not some evolutionary bad joke either.  They evolved for a reason.  They are innate to who we are as human beings, and to try to pervert them can only have negative consequences for psychological health and happiness.  They have a purpose, that I am only now beginning to comprehend.

    So masturbate away guys (including aneros and MMO practises) in a guilt-free way.

    Surely guilt in any form is a hindrance to aneros practice - "mind noise" and all that?

  • ZoopZoop
    Posts: 31
    This is just an argument of definitions.
    I find it very interesting that in a forum where the line of "don't get hung up on the definition/label" is said a lot, that the label of masturbation would mean anything.

    I don't think it really matters. I don't have any negative connotation to the word Masturbation. I agree with @Linum in that its completely normal and there's nothing to be ashamed of.

    But if you have to know, I do consider using the Aneros masturbation because its solo sexual stimulation. Yes its not really "manual" in the traditional sense, but your body is still working on itself to please itself, although your internal muscles are being used instead of your hand and arm.
    Even taking it a bit further though, Would you define using a vibrator or e-stim masturbation even if the device is doing most of the "work"? I still would.

    But what does it matter? Stop getting hung up on irrational cultural taboos on a completely normal, natural, safe and harmless activity. Of course the old saying about "too much of anything" still can apply, but If you can avoid  addiction, then you're good!
  • LinumLinum
    Posts: 227
    Thanks for your comments Zoop.

    The only area where I disagree (because I get hung up on definitions - outside my aneros sessions - lol) is that one can masturbate another man (or a woman) - and so it isn't strictly a solo activity - although most people might refer to that as sex, and indeed it can be a part of that.  With some gay men however, mutual wanking or masturbation can occur in the absence of any other sexual interaction (not that this is my thing you understand).
  • Did you hear about this 'dreadful' addiction that many suffer from, it wastes on average up to 30 hours of your life a week and some say it makes you go blind in the end!

    Yes watching TV, it must be true I saw it on a TV documentary.

    Anyway I think I've found a cure, if you MASTURBATE at least 4 hours a day you become completely immune to this addiction.

    Merry Christmas,
  • Who cares?  It is or it isn't.  Doesn't matter.  It's about pleasure and freedom.

    If they're right, I'm going to hell anyway, so fuck 'em.

    If they're wrong, and, of course, they are, how much poorer would our lives be by living without Aneros and/or masturbation?

    Merry Christmas, boys.  YOU are a gift that keeps on giving.