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Dangers Of Anal Lube and Options
  • OH!!
    Posts: 260
    During my often lengthy Aneros sessions afterwards I have noticed a thick, secretion in the lining of my nose / sinuses. It seems to vary somewhat based on what lube I have used. After using the 'Natural Jelly' I notice it seems to be very waxy. The thought occurs to me that perhaps I am underestimating the absorption and issues with anal lube. Many of us have discussed this topic to some degree, but typically related to causing cancer, etc. The line of thought is 'common sense' that we want to avoid any harsh chemicals. This seems like a intuitive approach and I'm sure is true, but the question comes up 'What is the safety of even common oils, and house hold items - things that we would ingest orally?'. We assume that if we can eat almond oil then it is safe to use anally, but is this really true? As I understand it and from what I have read whatever liquid is put in the rectum / anus is DIRECTLY absorbed into the blood stream. The blood stream! That means it travels to our lungs, our brain, our heart. I wonder now about the build up of plaque in the arterial walls from deposits from oils we use. Are we possibly setting ourselves up for a stroke or heart attack? While immediate use may not be toxic, what about long term chronic exposure to these substances? What is a truly safe anal lube? By this I mean what has been tested and proven to be safe? Oddly, in our new 'enlightened' age of sex it seems perhaps nothing has been tested and approved for safe anal use. We are possibly all rolling the dice here.

    I found this one article that discusses AIDS and lubricants used. It goes into other detail to some degree regarding the issue of using liquids anally. It also details some common ingredients of anal lubes and their known toxic effects. In particular I notice mineral / petroleum oil as highly toxic, but there are others.

    http://www.health-report.co.uk/benzene-lubricants-condoms.htm

    Are there any doctors on the list? Any of you with applicable health experience who have studied this subject to some degree? Please comment if you have any valuable thoughts and knowledge here. Can anyone find any good articles and information on the subject with links?

    PS: The article does list a couple of healthy lubes but I have no idea what testing has been done on these (even the natural ones) or if there are others known.

    PSPS: What about our natural home made lubes? Is there any proof or evidence that any of these natural ingredients are alright to circulate directly in our blood stream?
  • darwindarwin
    Posts: 1,196
    yeah, i definitely worry about this!

    that is why i switched to using exclusively refined coconut oil.

    i figure that if it is edible, and commonly eaten, it is ok.

    i am particularly wary of the water based lubes. the oil based ones don't get absorbed as much.

    darwin
  • est -ce que la gélé ky cest ok :?:
  • darwindarwin
    Posts: 1,196
    plantation-

    in my opinion, no, KY jelly is not ok. it is water based.

    darwin
  • pour darwin une marque de huile de coco rafiné pour moi merci :!:
  • darwindarwin
    Posts: 1,196
    plantation-

    this is the brand coconut oil i am using:
    https://www.wegmans.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=368332

    this is a latex-free syringe that i use (3cc). (oil dissolves latex)
    http://www.healthaccessories.com/ezy_dose/oral_syringes.htm

    coconut oil is solid at room temperature. to make it liquid, for the syringe, i put a small amount in a little cup, and heat it with a hair dryer

    darwin
  • rumelrumel
    Posts: 2,257
    OH!!

    Thank you for providing that thought provoking article link, it certainly goes to the heart of some of our fellow users concerns regarding lubrication compounds. I know this is something that ‘Virg’ has had a long standing concern about and it is a concern ‘Darwin’ and I share as well. We, Aneros users, find ourselves in the unique circumstance of being defacto test subjects for long term health effects of various anal lubricating compounds. While we are not in a clinically supervised and structured test, we are, no doubt, building a large base of user data regarding some of these formulations. Even the ‘Natural Jelly’ recipe, though containing all natural ingredients, contains alpha-tocopherol (vitamin E) which can be toxic at high levels of exposure (>800 IU/kg of body weight/day) but has many beneficial effects at low dosage levels and in combination with selenium and gamma-tocopherol may even have preventative effects on prostate cancer.
    One of the problems with getting scientific testing done on this type of usage is that we are such a small segment of the general population there is little incentive for anyone to fund a study. As you said, about all we can do is stay as well informed as we can and use “common sense” with our practice.
  • merci Darwin pour une marque de huile de coco rafiné pour moi merci mais le lien ne fonctione pas https://www.wegmans.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?productId=368332 :!:
  • darwindarwin
    Posts: 1,196
    plantation-

    it works for me??

    the product is: "Spectrum Organic Coconut Oil, Refined"

    darwin
  • Love_isLove_is
    Posts: 1,672
    Hey People, :)

    Those of you that have been reading my posts know that I've been using refined 100% shea butter as a natural anal lubricant. From reading forum member J4's blog, I got some good information from him to do some reading on the internet regarding refined versus unrefined shea butter. Turns out that harsh nasty chemicals that are not good for the body are used to refine the oil. And then on top of that, the shea butter loses it's natural healing qualities after being refined. So I'll switch to unrefined 100% shea butter when I finish this jar. I would imagine there are some similar issues with coconut oil. Something to consider.

    Love is Peace
  • BusterBuster
    Posts: 953
    Well, I guess I didn't want to live forever anyway. What a way to go!
  • Nice sentiment Buster!
    But seriously ... I feel I'm making progress and I haven't been using any lube at all except spitting in my palm and rolling the Aneros around in my spittle before insertion - the Peridise is of course the easiest of all to use like this, but the Helix has been ok and the couple of times I've used the Progasm, maybe I'm just naturally moister back there, but daily dried prune intake (4) helps I feel to maintain good rectum natural lubrication. Apart from not worrying about possible effects of using other substances, not bodily generated, it's a whole lot less of a performance compared to the one time I've used "baby bottom butter" which is shea butter based.
  • Love_isLove_is
    Posts: 1,672
    That's a very good point hapticbear!
    But does using saliva last for long term sessions without frequent re-application?
  • I don't know guys,
    I agree we need to think about what we put up our butts for lube, and I do use my own natural lube, but, I also use the waterbase if I'm in a hurry and don't want to mess with the Shea Butter.

    I think it is better to use some type of lube rather than end up with a torn rectum from little or no lube at all.

    If we love to get super-O's then we need to lube, and we need to go as natural as possible.

    They have a couple of new water based lubes now that have as few harmful chemicals as possible.

    I just got one called Sliquid, it is made in the USA and is Vegan. glycerine, and paraben free.

    Some are even organic. as listed. I got the Sliquid Sassy Anal, as it is a bit cheaper that the organic, but I still wanted most of the chemicals gone.

    http://www.cheaplubes.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=660
    http://www.cheaplubes.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=659

    I have not tested it yet but I will very, very soon ... maybe tonight :lol:
  • Love_isLove_is
    Posts: 1,672
    Hey skeeter_g!

    Thanks for posting the info on Sliquid lube.

    http://www.sliquid.com
    They seem to have the right idea in making a natural lube. But two of the ingredients in their non-organic line: Polyquat 007, and DMDM Hydantoin, cause some concern in me. There is a review at the following link:

    http://www.redsneakerdiaries.com/?p=406

    While this stuff is most likely healthier than glycerin or silicone based lubes. Those two ingredients would keep me from wanting to use it. Although if pre-lubing doesn't cause the urge to purge like glycerin based lubes do for me, then that would be a huge improvement.

    On the other hand...
    Their organic line has no nasty man made chemicals in it that I can see.
    http://sliquidorganics.com
    I applaud them in achieving that! So it looks like Sliquid Organics Gel would be a good one to try. Only thing is, it's more expensive than the shea butter that I use. Although, that may change once I switch over to unrefined shea butter. But it would have to last for long sessions without having to re-apply more lube for me to switch I would think.

    I'll be interested to hear how you like the Sliquid Sassy you bought. Keep us posted. :)

    Love is Peace
  • Love_isLove_is
    Posts: 1,672
    Hello again,

    I just want to post the link in here of the other thread on natural lubes so we can keep similar information grouped together for easy reference.

    http://www.aneros.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2838
  • Hi All,
    I had my first session with the new Sliquid Sassy last night, while the session was very good:lol:, I do have some observations on the lube.
    Well, it feels like most other water bases lubes but a bit thicker. Maybe because they designed it for the butt.
    I went through only about 35 minutes before I felt like I needed to re-lube. that is not usual for me, as I can always go an hour or more with Maximus Water base. I removed the Progasm, and went for the new lube job, then went only another 35 minutes and then ended the session a little early.

    Obviously I have a lot of this Sliquid lube remaining, but I may mix a small batch with some Maximus to see if it is any good...

    I hope somebody will try the Organic Sliquid and post how they like it.
  • Love_isLove_is
    Posts: 1,672
    Hi skeeter_g,

    Thanks for posting your observations of the Sliquid Sassy. I have to say, 35 minutes until re-lube in my opinion is not long enough. Did you pre-lube your rectum at all with it? If you didn't, that might account for why you need to re-lube so often.

    Just as an example, when I was using Astroglide(glycerin based lube), with a pre-lube of 2.5 to 3 ml I could go for many hours without re-lubing as long as I didn't swap Aneros within the session. But the urge to purge after pre-lube was not comfortable at all. With the shea butter I use, I never have to re-lube at all. If I swap out an Aneros during a session I lube up the new one going in, and keep going.

    I agree, a review of the Organic Sliquid would be most informative.

    Love is Peace
  • Hi Love_is,
    I always prelube, but I don't use much, nor do I personally need it.
    So when I compare lubes, I don't do anything different than what I always do.

    It maybe worth it for a couple of other folks to try and see how they like it, but to me it is not the product I would use on a regular bases. I need lube to last!! :lol:
  • Love_isLove_is
    Posts: 1,672
    Hi skeeter_g,

    I always prelube, but I don't use much, nor do I personally need it.


    I wonder if not using much might be the problem in itself. Any lube of this sort I'd be pre-lubing my rectum with a syringe with no less than 2.5 to 3ml. I know I've read guys here that pre-lube with much more than that. That strikes me as the key to making this sort of lube work. But without actually trying it, I have no way of really knowing.

    I need lube to last!!


    I agree entirely! I'm very happy with shea butter myself. And I don't foresee changing lubes in the near future. With the exception of changing to unrefined shea butter.

    Love is Peace
  • all lubes are absorbed most are expelled via the w.c very few cause trouble

    vasaline as been used for over 50 years on babys bottoms to anal use cant about find about anyone

    who died or had medical probs
  • Hi Love_is,
    I really like the Shea Butter as well... :wink: by the way, I did use the unrefined shea in my last batch of lube. :lol:

    I will still be trying the new Sliquid Sassy. I may try a bit more like you suggest and see what happens. I have noting to loose!! :wink:


    Hi telwest,
    I think lots of different lubes have been used, but some folks are very concerned how much of the bad stuff is being absorbed into the anus.

    I think we are all hoping that we can find that perfect lube that does not impact our systems and cause problems in the future. :)
  • Badger
    Posts: 652
    Has anyone tried Slippery Stuff Gel? Apparently it was developed for medical examination use and is FDA registered. It is extremely thick; bubbles in the syringe will not migrate to the top, and it seems to last a very long time.

    Does anyone else have any experience with this?
  • I have been using Sliquid Sassy Intimate Gel for two months with good results. Anyone else use this lube on a regular basis?
  • has no one tried flax seed oil?

    If not, I will. Absorbed straight into your blood stream, fantastical! It's really good for your prostate, so it seems like a perfect combo.
  • gourdy
    Posts: 20
    I dont know guys...

    The original article cited is pretty outdated. It also makes some rather dubious claims.

    "If HIV is transmitted sexually and is highly contagious, why hasn't AIDS spread into the heterosexual population? (15)"

    This statement, along with many others this author is making seem vague/generalized/unsupported.

    I would need better supported evidence myself.
  • But, gourdy, despite the flaws in the original article, I think the premise still stands that the rectum is absorbing chemicals from the personal lubricants and those chemicals may have a deleterious effect on our internal systems. In my research on this topic, I notice many medications are administered via the rectum to take advantage of its highly absorptive capabilities. That supports the advice that we should be careful what we use for personal lubricants. I also notice that the spermicide-lubricant in condoms specifically says that it is not intended for rectal use. So, using a condom for a barrier to the lubricant may not prevent absorption of unwanted compounds (haven't checked on non-lubricated condoms).

    Since no professional research is being done on this topic, I think the safest bet is to stick to unrefined natural products. I notice that hemorrhoid suppositories use cocoa butter as the major active ingredient with several derivatives of the paraben group as inactive ingredients. The dosage on these products indicate they are safe up to six suppositories per day. I'd conclude that cocoa butter, or coconut oil or shea butter, and related compounds are probably our safest bet.
  • Would these natural lubes be more prone to have bacteria in them?
  • Bacteria? Most definitely. Everything does, including the rectum, unless it is specifically sterilized. Pathogenic bacteria? Most likely not unless an infected person with inappropriate hygiene was involved in the production process. Bacteria are destroyed by heat, so initially warming the product above 161 F for 15-20 seconds should reduce the number of viable pathogens. Since these are oil products, you could probably go all the way to boiling without damaging the chemical structure. Just make sure it has returned to room or body temperature before you use it!!
  • has no one tried flax seed oil?


    am I going to have to be the first? :?
  • Love_isLove_is
    Posts: 1,672
    Hello Buttmasterflex, :)

    has no one tried flax seed oil?


    am I going to have to be the first?


    You might. :lol:
    While being a healthy natural product, I don't suspect it will be very good in it's duration and lubricating qualities. Read the following link in the WIKI regarding vegetable oils in section 2 to see what I am talking about.

    http://wiki.malegspot.com/index.php?title=Getting_Started#Types_of_Lubricants

    Love_is
  • One thing that concerns me too is that this 'natural' word is used a lot in marketing. Poison Ivy is also 'natural' and we all know that does not belong near the behind. Could some of these products that use things we normally eat still be bad? I know food get prepped in digestion before it reaches the colon.
  • ten_s_nutten_s_nut
    Posts: 818
    Hello, all.

    I'm reviving this thread because it has some good lube info along with the usual paranoia. And, here's something relatively new that indicates silicone lube may not always be prohibited for silicone toys like Vice:

    Tantus Silicone - sex education articles

    Cheers,

    Dave
  • rookrook
    Posts: 1,604
    Hey guys -- this post is somewhat hypercritical but not intended to scare the be-jesis out of folk. I rather like the roll of the dice and am comfortable in my skin and with my Aneros practice. However, this thread is realistic and the guys who contributed may have been well ahead of their time -- we do stand on the shoulders of some very smart and realistic heroes.

    Thanks to Dave for finding this outstanding bump. Valuable particularly for Metis' reference to NLM's toxnet and for his tips regarding testing Silicones for compatibility. --- good read for all vice owners.

    I am a bit surprised that the AIDS paper dated 2008 cited a few references that had been discredited. Nevertheless, some of it's thinking is sufficietly germane to the overall picture on anal lubes.


    My recent lube story:

    I fall into both the 'dry-ass' and 'very absorptive' families of Aneros users. So I share Metis' lust for lube. I also share with OH!! the dubious ability to get fractions of anal lube into my sinus and nasal membranes. For me, that's 35-45 minutes after I start a session -- I 'smell' the stuff. Some 'stuff' is OK and floral, other is somewhat 'chemical.' So some lubes add to my olifactory pleasure while others detract from my sensous experience. I've also found that I'm resorting to my 'neti pot' more often than ever before in my life. So there's little doubt that lube gets into my general circulation without having been broken down by liver bile and other digestive juices. -- Bile - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia -- K-Y is about the only lube that I don't smell however I'm glycerin sensitive so have bowel & IBS issues with it.

    Note: There are some inborn differences in how the hepatic veins are organized around the colon and rectum so some men may be more immune to rapid absorption of anal lubes while others are not -- listen to your bod.

    Flashback 25 years when I had regular work exposure to a variety of neurotoxic petrochemicals, distillates and organic bases like Hydrazine. Although well protected from skin absorption and inhalation hazards, we were taught to recognize the immediate symptoms of neurotoxin exposure (numbing of fingertips, visual aberrations, and sense of balance) as well as post-exposure disorientation.

    Lo and behold, several weeks ago, I had an extended and generously lubed Aneros/e-stim session. I picked a lube, I'd not used before, for it's electro-conductive properties. The session had no hint of an orgasm. I attributed that to the newness and distractions of electro shock. I arose from bed a bit dizzy and for several days suffered from mild disorientation. Again, I blamed the e-stim but had the same symptoms several days later with the same lube but without any e-stim. A search of the Forum identified one other man who had the same experience with that lube. We are perhaps only two of maybe 5,000 men who have used that particular lube and had an issue. So, I am not in a position to damn that particular lube. It's ingredients are not unlike many other popular lubes. Only the order of ingredients is different. However, two of us seem neurologically sensitive to it. However, it only happened twice so is really "anecdotal."

    So, for the more paranoid in the group, in addition to cancer, bowel issues, unknown circulatory and lipid questions, you can now ponder your tactile and sensory nerve endings!

    I continue to pasteurize my Shea Butter + Coconut Oil lube to kill any unfriendly bacteria as do rumel and alv. However, when on travel or in a hurry, I 'roll-the-dice' with Slippery Stuff Gel even though it has a small parabens component. I do feel safe in my skin! And suggest that all Anerosians find a path where they feel comfortable.

    Switch to silicone ? -- perhaps I'll pull out that old bottle of Swiss Navy and give it a try.

    Will check it out with a tiny sliver from my Vice and see how it plays.

    @Dave -- Perhaps it's appropriate to start a thread exclusive to Silicone lubes and how they play with the Vice and, perhaps other toys as well. It might be helpful if we could find out whether HIH has standardized on a single composition of Silicone rubber for the Vice and future toys. Or if we are dealing with a moving target.

    Meanwhile guys, 'listen to your bodies'

    rook
  • ten_s_nutten_s_nut
    Posts: 818
    Good points, rook.

    OK, here are the results of my tests of Astroglide X Silicone lube on 3 silicone toys:

    FunFactory Share --------- Pass
    Tantus Feeldoe Slim -------- Pass
    Aneros Vice --------------- Pass

    Pass means the silicone lube did not bond to the toy and wiped away clean after several minutes of trying to rub it into the surface.

    NOTE: Before you take the chance of ruining one of your toys, do your own test on a small, unimportant part of your toy. Silicone formulations may vary from time to time, as do the lubes themselves.

    Cheers,

    Dave

    PS. rook tested Swiss Navy Silicone lube on his Vice and it passed. Remember, run your own test with your own bottle of Swiss Navy or Astroglide X because the manufacturer might have changed the formula along the way.
  • What about Olive Oil?
  • Love_isLove_is
    Posts: 1,672
    Good information guys! I'm particularly impressed that the silicone lube only has issues with certain qualities/types of silicone toys. Not that I'm in a hurry to use silicone lube. But it's good to know that it might be an alternative to glycerin based lubes.

    Love_is
  • ten_s_nutten_s_nut
    Posts: 818
    Bill, and all;

    Olive Oil? Yes, for me, Vaseline covered with Olive Oil is still the best, most long-lasting lube there is. I confirmed that last night by trying Astroglide X Silicone lube on my Vice instead of the usual combo. Had a typical session, slept until 5 AM, then had sex with my wife. When I removed the Vice before showering, I noticed that it had more "drag" on exiting than the Vaseline/Olive Oil system.

    Best Regards,

    Dave
  • Love_isLove_is
    Posts: 1,672
    Hello Dave, :)

    While olive oil is natural and healthy compared to synthetic lubes. Your use of mixing it with Vaseline doesn't properly show how it performs on it's own. I'm betting you could use Vaseline by itself and get similar results as when mixing with olive oil. But not likely the other way around. But never having tried olive oil, I can't say for sure. Thoughts?

    Love_is
  • ten_s_nutten_s_nut
    Posts: 818
    Love_is;

    I've tried both Olive Oil and Vaseline by themselves and they are not as effective. Somehow, the Olive Oil coating sticks to the Vaseline, making a very slippery and long-lasting lube. BTW, it only takes about 1 cc of Vaseline and 1 cc of Olive Oil to coat the Vice. The combo easily lasts all night.

    I plan to start testing Walnut Oil as a replacement for the Olive Oil, starting tonight. Walnut Oil has Omega 3, which is good for you.

    Cheers,

    Dave
  • rookrook
    Posts: 1,604
    Happened to note some complaints about the melting temperature of Shea Butter being too low. So it's melting in the hand rather than melting inside.

    Happened also to recently see a history of Chocolate. That show pointed out that the melting point of Cocoa Butter is between 97 and 99 degrees (F)..

    Problem solved ! And it might increase the popularity of rimming.

    Late Edit (Oct 2012):   Noted an addition to my Grocery Stores's shelf inventory  -- Vaseline with Cocoa Butter.   Identify it by the Brown cap rather than the standard Blue Cap...   enjoy!
  • The URLs for one of Dave's ( @ten_s_nut ) posts above to do with "Tantus Silicone - sex education series" seem to have changed to:

    http://tantusinc.com/SEX-ED/Got-Lube-Part-1
       and
    http://tantusinc.com/SEX-ED/Got-Lube-Part-2
  • Badger
    Posts: 652
    Petroleum Jelly, especially Vaseline, is quite safe.  The man that discovered it, Robert Chesebrough, ate a tablespoon a day for over 60 years, and died at the age of 96.  I highly doubt that he would have lived that long if it was toxic.
  • isvara
    Posts: 587
    Just for interest:
    I got this off the Tantus site. 
    The reason for "no silicone lube on silicone toys". 
    Silicone lubricant may bond to the toy. This isn't true for all silicone toys (e.g.Tantus Cock Sling) - it depends on the purity of the silicone toy and the purity of the lubricant. If you wish to test your silicone toy with silicone lube use the bottom of the flanged base and do a test square.
    (sorry for the colours)
  • Fantastic thread! Since getting more involved in prostate massage due to boats of BPH, PFP, and some ED the thought of using lubes that could be harmful has been heavy on my mind.

    The biggest concern for a 40 something year old is with regular use, could we be entertaining cell changes that could lead to Cancer? we simply do not know.

    So I have been thinking of switching from trusted astro glide and vaseline to olive oil. I cant imagine a good dose of olives up the bum can be harmful! But then our little bums are used to only having digested waste going through it. But I think without research opting for natural things other than chemical compounds is the way to go

    FYI - had the best session ever this morning!

  • isvara
    Posts: 587
    Food for thought:
    I find neat oil sort of seeps out. If added to a little beeswax this seeping seems to be minimized. Else where on the forum there is a lot of info about this. It is called Natural Jelly. Olive oil, walnut oil and sweet almond oil are all "salad" oils.
  • so silicone lubes are ok?  I have been using ID Moments which is silicone based for about a year now with no problems.  Tried water based early on and stopped after the "purge" feelings.
  • Well just been shopping with probably the most understanding wife on the planet (well for me anyway) and got a large jar of organic natural coconut oil.

    It melts on your skin and even says on the jar "for skin care" as well as cooking.

    It has no scent and very very slippery.

    Anyone else tried it?

  • ruomsey
    Posts: 6
    I have tried a lot of different oils, lotions, proprietary and otherwise.
    Of all the common oils found in most kitchens I find the most slippery and lasting is peanut oil.
    It does seep out and so I use an old towel to lie, or sit on. (I generally sit on a chair.)
    Covering the device with petroleum jelly before the oil application does not help much imo.
    Maybe the addition of beeswax would help make the lube more sustainable but beeswax is expensive and not all that easy to come by.
    I also tried the addition of some margarine. This did not help really, both added to the peanut oil and by itself.
    I don't like KY or other so called water based lubes for anal applications. They just don't last.
    I find the best test for natural lubes is to taste it. If it tastes ok and kind of bland then it won't react with your anus/rectum.
    I use the peanut oil for wok cooking as well...


  • hamptonbdsm
    Posts: 32
    I recently found a "natural" version of Astroglide GEL at the store.

    Alcohol, glycerin, paraben, fragrance free

    Used a whole tube with the Aneros and it worked great.
  • Bobandy
    Posts: 22
    I'm curious as to why silicone lubes are considered safer than natural products? Seems to me that an unnatural product like silicone would be much worse? What am I missing? Thanks