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Stage 1 transition into Stage 2?
  • I've been thinking the last few days.  In seeing and reading some of our new members posts and concerns, there seems to be two distinct stages to me in this Aneros journey.  One, figure out how to get the device to make physical sensation.  Two, how to enjoy the higher mental, emotional, and spiritual benefits that come along with Aneros progression.  


    My concern and inquiry really revolves around this:

    New person A wants to insert Aneros tab A into slot A.  Person A then wants to be able to feel physical sensations regarding Aneros.  It's why most of us bought the product after all.  I see many of us give advice about what Aneros isn't.  It's not about penis stimulation.  It's not about traditional orgasm.  It's not about physically forcing the Aneros.  Etc...  But, thinking as a new person, what techniques did I use to make the transition from feeling anal and prostate sensation to full blown out of body orgasmic and cosmic energy experiences?

    I see all the time we tell new members how important breathing is.  We tell them to "do nothing".  We tell them about relaxation and letting sensation come to them.  I mean, all of this is true, and it's right, but it seems like I got to truly understanding this "stage" of Aneros after I initially did some work on my own.  I was truly creating some strong bucking contractions and full on body position contortion at times to get some sensations early on.  Everything felt great in doing so, but was it because I was putting in the effort?

    I think I might not be making my point clearly.  It's hard for me to define what it is I'm trying to ask.  There seems to be two distinct stages to me.  There also seems to be an abundance of advice for the "second" stage of Aneros.  I'm trying to get more information to share with others about the "first" stage.  What did you guys do to spawn initial physical sensation, and at which point did the journey of creating sheer physical sensation turn into the journey to expand and explore the meta-physical sensations?

    I think some of the best examples I can use to express some advice on the "stage 1" of Aneros to those struggling is when some members suggest a hit or two of weed to spark the body and calm the mind.  Other suggest strong contractions that may lead to auto F*ing.  These two bits of advice seem more of the physical "stage 1" that I'm thinking about.

    The best example advice I can give on the "stage 2" of Aneros is the "do nothing" approach, and Cock's "Penis Not!" approach.  These are more mind states.  We have several threads about "mind noise" the "Tao of Aneros" the "Penis, Not!" theory.  These are all non-physical, but attitudes, beliefs, experiences that have created a higher level of Aneros enjoyment that expand with and beyond the simple physical.  

    But, to get to these "stage 2" sensations, don't we at some point need to at least become adept at the "stage 1" sensations?  How much mastery of the physical is needed before the meta-physical unlocks?

    Does any of this make sense?

  • rumelrumel
    Posts: 2,265
    rikaaim,

    You've raised some good topics for further discussion here. IMHO division of the Aneros journey into two distinct stages may be a bit of oversimplification, but I'll work with that premise. I infer from your post you are asking about the Aha! moment when a certain technique 'clicks in' and one of the tumblers falls into place that unlocks the Super-O vault door.

    "What did you guys do to spawn initial physical sensation, and at which point did the journey of creating sheer physical sensation turn into the journey to expand and explore the meta-physical sensations?"
    For me it has been a series of small 'Aha' events. While I got to a Super-O relatively quickly (about my 15-16th session) I feel my preparatory reading of information on this site about the various techniques others had employed was immensely helpful. It was experimenting with a variety of techniques which I feel led me to the 'bliss cocoon'. I found 'B Mayfield's, 'darwin's and 'Pan's posts particularly enlightening as to all the variables of this journey.
    I was fortunate that after only a couple of sessions I was getting pleasure waves from my Aneros use, from those early sessions I intuitively sensed there was a much more profound depth to this experience than just something sexual but I couldn't identify with words just what it was/is.

    "But, to get to these "stage 2" sensations, don't we at some point need to at least become adept at the "stage 1" sensations?"
    I don't think one needs to be adept to transition from Stage 1 to Stage 2. There are reported cases of men having experienced Super-O's right out of the box and there are reported cases of men going years before they cross that threshold. This is one of the paradoxes of Aneros use, focus of will, diligent adherence to procedure, "...mastery of the physical..." may all be for naught if the intangible, non-physical aspects of the mind are not also attuned.

    I have no doubt that learning the sensual language of your own body, interpreting the sensations and stimulus feedback are necessary steps to creating repeatably satisfying Anerosessions. To that end, learning one's own unique combination of techniques to the point of automatically employing them without conscious thought makes the transition to Stage 2 immensely easier. However, the catch is being patient enough and open to experimenting with the large array of techniques shared by our fellow members.

    We also need to keep in mind some men have no desire to pursue a Super-O, they are perfectly happy to experience Super-T's with or without a partner and that is fine as well, they simply aren't interested in the Stage 2 effects. In such cases, the dalliance with Tantric/Taoist philosophies is pretty much meaningless as are the particulars of various sensual techniques of Aneros usage.
    image Good Vibes to You ! image
  • Love_isLove_is
    Posts: 1,672
    @rikaaim -  As a long term grinder (over five years now) that has not achieved super-O's yet, I can only comment on stage one. I suspect the answers are going to be very different and personal for each guy. But nevertheless interesting, informative, and possibly helpful for others to read about.

    “...What did you guys do to spawn initial physical sensation, and at which point did the journey of creating sheer physical sensation turn into the journey to expand and explore the meta-physical sensations?...”

    Very initially on well before I had much experience. It was hip movements and anal contractions. This gave me a glimmer of the potential of these devices. But not enough to get me to use them regularly. Then I started to have problems with the “urge to purge” from the glycerin based lube Astroglide that I was using, and I started to experiment with other lubes. Once I tried and found 100% unrefined shea butter, particularly Now Foods Shea butter, this was a huge step in the right direction. As now I could have sessions without having to run to the bathroom to urgently move my bowels, but also I found that insertion and removal became painless, in addition to the Aneros become much more comfortable to have in me. This was another side effect of the glycerin based lube, it caused an uncomfortable burning sensation on my inner anal sphincter. Suddenly at this point Aneros sessions became much more pleasurable, and this was the incentive I needed to practice more regularly.

    Then a year or so later into my Aneros journey I found I had hit a brick wall of sorts in my progress. I reluctantly tried ejaculation abstinence, which was initially incredibly difficult with me masturbating daily, and this ended up being an incredible and profound game changer. The level of pleasure in my Aneros sessions jumped phenomenally. Not long into this my prostate became incredibly sensitive in a way that it never before had. And my progress continued in small leaps and bounds.

    Most recently I discovered how effective the “do nothing” approach is. Or what I like to think of it as not interfering. The only problem, is that this was something I had tried before at several points in my journey, and doing nothing created nothing at those points. So it's not like using this technique alone helped. It wasn't until I got to a certain stage in my progress that this was helpful. And I suspect it was once my body figured out how to have fairly consistent involuntary contractions. Several times over the last three or four months as I've been able to let go and let my body do what it wants with the Aneros, and I've felt close to going over the top into something amazing. But I either ended up interfering or getting scared of the amazing sensations I'm feeling which stops the whole process.

    And that's all I can pass along at this point in time.
  • "...division of the Aneros journey into two distinct stages may be a bit of oversimplification...I infer from your post you are asking about the Aha! moment when a certain technique 'clicks in' and one of the tumblers falls into place that unlocks the Super-O vault door."

    Yes, Rumel, this is exactly what I'm referring to.  I guess I naturally created this "division" because I see see often questions and topics regarding either one or the other.  Many of use try to assist those hoping to gain the knack of the "physical" pleasure by offering advice on the "meta-physical" techniques.  I was just curious how effective this is.  Obviously the advice given is truly honest, heart felt, and well pointed.  Many men create topics sharing how they just "had a moment" or "got it" after a bit of "meta-physical" breathing, meditation, inner body listening, or universal energy connection.  This really caused me to be curious and excited.  Just what is the magic?  That question in and of itself is its own answer.  It is magic in its own way.

    "For me it has been a series of small 'Aha' events. While I got to a Super-O relatively quickly (about my 15-16th session) I feel my preparatory reading of information on this site about the various techniques others had employed was immensely helpful. It was experimenting with a variety of techniques which I feel led me to the 'bliss cocoon'."

    I love how you say "For me" first of all.  Love_is does the very same thing.  This in and of itself is another answer, for me. : )  I guess I feel what I feel and think it natural because it's all I've known and felt.  However, we each do have our own unique answers to these questions because we have our own unique feelings and processes.  Rook posted in another topic (size by newguy50) "It took me over three months to 'awaken' the nerve connections to my prostate."  Until I saw that, I had forgotten about the actual nervous connections that have to be formed at times.  I know we "re-wire", but I forgot that there was an actual re-wiring as well as new neural pathways are created.  So, that's part of the "stage 1" process I guess since physical nueral pathways are forming.  It's not like any of us have true control over how to accomplish that.  Which is why we use "meta-physical" techniques to assist our body in adjusting and accepting the new sensations.  Even writing this is a small "Aha!" moment.  It's starting to click for me a little bit too.

    Spyeg's Who I Am, As I Am, And What I've Discovered topic is actually what got me thinking about all this.  He had an "Aha!" moment that helped things "click".  I was just thinking, what is it that breaks open that barrier, that really allows the dissolution of limitations?  Of course, my analytical brain is trying to find the precise set pattern of action to create a reproducible result for all who wish to reach whatever level they strive for.  That's great in science with controlled variables, but this is part science, part spirituality, part belief, part understanding, and a lot of letting go. 

    But, what you say Rumel about the techniques is kind of what I was thinking in "stage 1" understanding.  We have a lot of topics about techniques and Wiki topics about the physical techniques.  So, would you suggest trying the physical techniques first to a new member or to try and incorporate some of the mental prep and understanding?  It's not until I became really fluid and natural with my "physical" techniques that I was able to truly blend all the "meta-physical" techniques as well.  Now, it all seems so natural to me that I have a hard time deciphering if my body is causing the spiritual or the spiritual the body.  It's a perfect balance and blend of give and take, but that was learned and practiced.

    I think when you mention the "bliss cocoon" that this is probably my ultimate goal at this point.  Super-Os are outstanding and wonderful in their own right, but to be in a total state of ecstasy and bliss is beyond orgasmic at times.  It's fully encompassing and surrounding.  I want others to feel and enjoy this sensation.  Also, when you reference B Mayfield, Darwin, and Pan, those three along with Cockadoodle probably gave me the greatest inspiration and insight into physical techniques.  Yourself and Artform have truly expanded my knowledge about the "meta-physical aspect".  Rook and many others have contributed their countless experiences and suggestions to further my own growth also.

    "I have no doubt that learning the sensual language of your own body, interpreting the sensations and stimulus feedback are necessary steps to creating repeatably satisfying Anerosessions. "

    I think that might be the best answer I can think of as well.  I've been thinking about your response all day as I worked so that I could respond when I had the time, which is now.  Spyeg refers to his starting of the "positive feedback loop".  This only affirms the biological re-wiring that confirms an action will produce and reproduce the desired effect.  The best case I can think of as an example is that when I woman is in child labor her body enters a positive feedback loop of releasing "relaxin" an enzyme that allows the pubic symphisis to soften so the pelvis can spread for child birth.  I always think of such a feedback loop when our prostates are reaching full "buzz".  

    "We also need to keep in mind some men have no desire to pursue a Super-O, they are perfectly happy to experience Super-T's with or without a partner and that is fine as well, they simply aren't interested in the Stage 2 effects. In such cases, the dalliance with Tantric/Taoist philosophies is pretty much meaningless as are the particulars of various sensual techniques of Aneros usage."

    This is also true, but something was an oversight to me.  This goes back to my egocentric viewpoint that what I experience all experience.  I appreciate your comments Rumel.  I appreciate your honest answer and understanding.  There is a bit of science, a bit of art, and I think sometimes a bit of luck.  I always encourage everyone to post because what may not make sense to me may be the very thing that allows someone else to "get it".  

    " As a long term grinder (over five years now) that has not achieved super-O's yet, I can only comment on stage one. I suspect the answers are going to be very different and personal for each guy. But nevertheless interesting, informative, and possibly helpful for others to read about."

    Love_is, I appreciate your response as well.  Inevitably someone will start to ask how long they have to "keep at it" before they start getting Super-Os or things feeling good/better.  It is encouraging to see enjoyment and excitement even after the journey starts to get a few years behind it.  You offer a great perspective.

    I could quote your whole second paragraph.  From just saying that you physically moved your hips and provided some contractions to how a lube affected your enjoyment is quite insightful.  I personally thought the contractions were the key to initial success.  Using PC muscles and Kegal squeezes really allowed me to active my prostate.  But, you're right about the lube having its own effect.  I mixed up my combinations a few times and found that with some there really was a significant lack of action and therefore enjoyment.  Once I went back to a more established order, everything slid right into place. But, your final statement in finding incentive is perhaps the biggest benefit.  Each person's incentive is different also, much like Rumel said about some just wanting Super-Ts. 

    "And my progress continued in small leaps and bounds."

    I think this may be the biggest "norm" if any exists.  I have been hitting my own plateaus as well and from time to time will find a new "ledge" to jump up onto. Sometimes, my session is just a nice prolonged plateau with a moment or two at the "pinnacle".  Sometimes I reach that "pinnacle" and then come back to the plateau only to climb to the "pinnacle" once more during a session.  This can be a singular event or multiple occurrences.  Each time is different and unique.

    "Most recently I discovered how effective the “do nothing” approach is. Or what I like to think of it as not interfering. The only problem, is that this was something I had tried before at several points in my journey, and doing nothing created nothing at those points."  

    I love how you reference this bit of advice.  This is perhaps the greatest advice that can be given, but maybe the most misunderstood.  When I see "do nothing" I think literally, nothing.  But if I just sit in a session and do nothing at all, then generally nothing at all happens.  If I start some light contractions and get the ball rolling sort to speak, things tend to rev up on their own and take over.  So, how you say, "think of it as not interfering" I think that's brilliant.  Spyeg speaks of pulling back a little bit and not interfering in which he takes on a more observer role and starts to feel and see what's pleasurable and natural to him.  

    "So it's not like using this technique alone helped. It wasn't until I got to a certain stage in my progress that this was helpful. And I suspect it was once my body figured out how to have fairly consistent involuntary contractions. Several times over the last three or four months as I've been able to let go (emphasis mine) and let my body do what it wants with the Aneros (emphasis mine), and I've felt close to going over the top into something amazing."

    I also think this is some good advice.  We all want to "let go" and we give that advice as well, but it is VERY HARD to do in my opinion.  It's perhaps this very point that lead me to this question in the first place.  Does building up some physical sensation and ability first allow one better to "let go" and enjoy the rest of the sensations that follow?

    Since the general feel seems to be this is a very individual and unique answer and process, mine personally began with me enforcing strong contractions to the point of quivering muscle fatigue.  It was after my body started rocking and rolling from my focus on the physical that the energies and pleasure I felt came to me naturally lifting me higher and higher.  This may have been to my earlier life lessons of self hypnosis and meditation, but I can't say for sure.  

    I truly appreciate both of your answers.  They are both very well thought out and idea provocative.  I'll be thinking about both answers for a while and enjoying many "Aha!" moments as the answers more fully sink in.  


  • Love_isLove_is
    Posts: 1,672
    @rikaaim – You certainly have brought up some good points of conversation about all this. Thank you. :)

    “Does building up some physical sensation and ability first allow one better to "let go" and enjoy the rest of the sensations that follow?”

    Possibly, but not necessarily. I think it very much depends on the background and experience of the individual male, and also possibly personality type and life beliefs. For myself I've noticed that in addition to learning and cultivating the physical sensations, much more recently once the “do nothing/not interfering” approach actually started working for me, I've found I've had to learn and cultivate how to get into this weird relaxed, observant, and detached state of mind to allow my body to do what it wants with the Aneros. So far, I've only been successful for brief periods of time within the session with this. Quite a challenge for someone like me that tends to be constantly anxious and wanting to be in control. But I suspect that men who are very familiar and experienced with stuff like meditation, and relaxation techniques, this would be nothing new and easy to work with. Such that maybe they progress faster on their own Aneros journey by the fact they are much more used to letting go in their other practices, and the relaxation of the body, particularly the anus and rectal muscles, follows in step.

    I say that because I find that in my own experience, part of my progression with my Aneros journey has been discovering continued levels of relaxation of my anus and rectal muscles. Particularly to find and discover involuntary anal contractions that occur regularly and are easily maintained. Although I suppose learning and practicing the PC muscle flex goes against that idea. LOL
  • isvara
    Posts: 590
    Back to basics

    I am definitely in Stage 1. (NB: ED BHP Old!)
    (An over simplification of Stage 1 - the physical connecting of Aneros to prostate)
    1. The choice and purchase of a Aneros. (Reasons omitted)
    2. Getting over inserting it and expecting too much. (Lube and angle)
    3. Relaxing and being comfortable with it in place.
    4. Patience as the prostate and PC/BC get used to its presence. (Takes time)
    5. Patience when the Prostate makes a sensory connection. (Relax and allow)
    6. Finding and strengthening the various muscles (on going)
    7. Patience as the sensory responses increase. (Takes time)
    8. Experiencing the Prostate erection (engorgement)
    9. Relaxing allowing tiny spontaneous contraction/involuntary responses..
    10. Trying not to finish with an ejaculation every time. (retaining energy)
    10. Advanced : nip stim to enhance engorgement and awaken the skin zones.
    11. Allow some semi voluntary body movements.
    12. Enjoy the prostate engorgement without voluntary contractions.
    13. Patience with null sessions.
    14. Using different Aneros profiles for touching different prostate areas (ongoing)

    Stage 2 possibly when there is an overriding prostate-mind control? The involuntary response is more available.
  • Isvara:

    I adore the list!  Like you said, and Rumel, and others, it may be too much trying to oversimplify matters, but it is nice to have at least some landmarks to go by.  I really think you did a great job providing that.  It's a list I'll ponder over for a while just to reflect on each item and really let it process what I've felt and experienced with each one.


    love_is:

    " For myself I've noticed that in addition to learning and cultivating the physical sensations, much more recently once the “do nothing/not interfering” approach actually started working for me, I've found I've had to learn and cultivate how to get into this weird relaxed, observant, and detached state of mind to allow my body to do what it wants with the Aneros."

    This may be the hardest part, but it's the part that came so naturally to me that I can't describe or give advice to others on how to do this.  I just felt this right away from my first session and with everything culminating so quickly it was hard for me to "break it down" in order to tell others.  That's why I think it's hard for me to give advice to others at times.  With me it was just like, Bam!  Like a horse out of the gate I just went running. It's so great to have a collective group with various experiences to share and let everyone see different perspectives and understanding.  I'm glad  you keep posting and offering insight to me as well as others.

  • isvara
    Posts: 590
    love_is:
    (Quoting, I can't do the red type)
    " For myself I've noticed that in addition to learning and cultivating the physical sensations, much more recently once the “do nothing/not interfering” approach actually started working for me, I've found I've had to learn and cultivate how to get into this weird relaxed, observant, and detached state of mind to allow my body to do what it wants with the Aneros."

    I think I am right at this point. It is very subtle and difficult. In the Aneros prostate contact there is an engorgement and an intense feeling of an "opening potential of energy" a poor attempt to describe it. The problem is that although I do nothing in fact there is an unconscious voluntary response that at a critical point happens automatically initially feeling a step deeper but it actually blocks/stops where it might be going. I think if this unconscious blocking response can be prevented the door will open. I think this is where we can get stuck. It feels like a hands free potential ejaculation that just doesn't quite make it because of a sort of unconscious semi voluntary interference. It is so hard to describe this subtle blocking mechanism. Relaxation an detachment through meditation might work!
    Of course I might just be getting a need for release. It's complicated!!
  • isvara:


    Someone describe it as basically "actively" do nothing.  Meaning, don't try to force anything.  Instead, be receptive.  Don't try to take control and think you know what's going to be the trigger action.  Allow your awareness to step back a little and "feel" what's coming into you instead.  This is feeling comes from within as well as outside.  Just try to experience the feelings and sensations.  I think that's the truer meaning of "do nothing".  Perhaps Rumel can elaborate as he is so good with such matters.  He always gives me some great advice and insight.  Yes, Rumel, I'm trying to entice you by playing to your ego.  : wink :

  • rumelrumel
    Posts: 2,265
    isvara,

    You said "The problem is that although I do nothing in fact there is an unconscious voluntary response that at a critical point happens automatically initially feeling a step deeper but it actually blocks/stops where it might be going." While you are labeling this response "unconscious" I suspect it is actually your ego exerting its sense of self control over your subconscious desire to experience the deeper level of pleasure.
    "I think if this unconscious blocking response can be prevented the door will open. I think this is where we can get stuck." Yes, indeed we can get stuck there, this is where the need to "Just Let Go" kicks in.
    "It is so hard to describe this subtle blocking mechanism. Relaxation an detachment through meditation might work!" Yes, relaxation of the body and mind does work. One of the goals of meditative practice is to still the mind, rid it of the noise and turn off the internal dialogue chatter of the ego. I often think of my Anerosessions as erotic meditations, no goal to be reached, I may Super-O or I may not, it doesn't matter, it is getting myself into that 'bliss cocoon' of warm fuzzy glow where I would love to stay for hours if I could.
    "Of course I might just be getting a need for release. It's complicated!!"ROFL Could be, but you might challenge yourself and ask is this just old masturbatory programming running a well honed script? It is complicated and paradoxically simple as well. When the tumblers click into place the door opens and you just Go with the Flow ! GWTF

    @rikaaim, OK you prodded me to respond, Yes, I agree with you, "don't try to force anything. ...be receptive. Don't try to take control..." I think one recipe for the "do nothing" approach requires an occasional very gentle PC/BC muscle squeeze along with a dash of erotic intent swimming in a broth of arousal with a watchful waiting vapor lingering over the pot.
    image Good Vibes to You ! image
  • isvara
    Posts: 590
    All good and helpful comments.
    The point I am making is trying to find the transition point from what has been suggested as Stage 1 to Stage 2. I am aware that it is probably different for each of us.
    As I am in stage 1 it seems to be a good opportunity to make notes from "the other side". There may also be the need to take baby steps as the rewiring starts to get into place. So the blocking may be part of the process.
    I will continue to step away from those "ego" responses and see what happens. It does seem to be accelerating at the moment.

    Foot Note:
    I am not sure about the blocking being "ego" responses I would think more like conditioned response that tighten up rather than letting go. Anyhow all good.
  • Love_isLove_is
    Posts: 1,672
    "I am not sure about the blocking being "ego" responses I would think
    more like conditioned response that tighten up rather than letting go.
    Anyhow all good."

    Perhaps we're all talking about the same thing, it's just being described differently. I see this as the conscious mind stepping in to try and either block what is scary because it is getting really intense, or it trying to take control in an attempt to make it more pleasurable and go over the top into orgasms. If this is the ego, so be it! LOL
  • Stage 2 discusses the role of the Kegel Exercises with the Aneros. I must say that in my own experience in working with both the Progasm Classic and Progasm Ice that the Kegels flow naturally into and out of an Aneros session. Both Progasm models were made for the Kegel Exercises. Using the Kegels along the Maximus has also enhanced my sessions with my Maximus! The result for me has been exquisite pleasure with my awakened prostate just radiating waves of pleasure! I think I am on the verge of experiencing something awesome!

    Thom./BigGlansDC