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We want the chat room!
  • jocco
    Posts: 90
    Myself and many others have grown to love the chat room and the energies and connectedness it provides on an otherwise lonely night. It was such a treat to get a full week, and I wonder what it would take to just have it be available all the time? I know I could be emailing admin, but I thought I'd create this as a thread to show how many people agree with me!

    Okay people, agree away!
  • brine
    Posts: 224
    Agree 100%, jocco.
  • Agreed, jocco. Good idea.

    Dave
  • The regulars are all represented ...add my vote!!!!
    Bigguy
  • artformartform
    Posts: 1,482
    YES! This could be a most important expansion for the Aneros community, and the learning processes here.

    as we rewire we are all reconnected

    artform
  • I too enjoy joining the chat whenever possible. It is however disapointing to logon and find the chat room empty. I think by restricting the hours, it encourages larger groups of people in the chat room. Maybe it would be a good idea to have monthly or weekly 5 hour chats that are scheduled for a specific purpose. Some ideas could be energy transfer tuesdays, or newbie wednesdays, or something like that. That way we could have the weekend chat window for general discussion, plus specific meeting times for certain interests.
  • I was part of the group that really enjoyed the weeklong chat room. Most of the time in the evening and night there are at least one or two guys there, sometimes 7 to 10. I would love to have the room open all the time. Last week I really got to know quite a few of the community mbers quite well. Count my vote as a definite yes!!
  • twlltintwlltin
    Posts: 570
    I also enjoyed the chat room being open all week. It really helped with my development to be able to discuss matters live. I kept chat open for most of the day and evening (UK time).

    I can also appreciate the advantages in making it weekends only: it can help making sure we're all together at the same time. The fear is that having it open all the time would lead to participation being more sparse.

    To counter that, perhaps we could have known set times for people to congregate (eg. Friday/Saturday/Sunday evenings starting at 7pm Eastern) and know that others will also be making an attempt to join chat at that time.

    I will add a comment that the chat software is very clunky, leading to significant lag in responses. However, it's not that much worse than other web chat software I've encountered.
  • I'm not 100% sold 24/7 chat, as I do buy into the mentality that restricting the availability forces people to kind of plan on being there.

    Also (and this is just me) but if you gave me 24/7 chat most days I'd hop in & then nobody would drop by so I'd go to doing something else on the computer and forget I'm logged into chat, scenarios like that add to the server demand, they would need to add in some sort of inactivity auto kick timer to combat that problem.

    My vote goes to not 24/7 but not the current setup. Either something along the lines of hairysack's suggestion is a good thought. Or my suggestion is to have say the first 7 days of every month be a week long chat or some other extended setup that both keeps the exclusivity but also encourages people to be around more.



    But really I want to see a good chat system (I know someone said it's "planned") the chat room needs fixed and improved. I understand HIH isn't a programing firm, but seriously there are Tons of other net chats that have the functionality we need here. Which to me begs the question why hasn't HIH shelled out some $$ and gotten the rights to use other chat software that does have all the bells, whistles and functionality that a real chat room needs.
    I personally find it very sad that in 2008 a user asked if it would be possible to edit text size, the only progress was that it was "looked in to" http://www.aneros.com/forum/f8/comments-regarding-chat-room-software-12524/
    (Maybe I've missed the option when I'm in chat but I sure never noticed if it was there)

    Just to point out a few issues with the current chat setup.

    ~The history functionality doe not work, it does not pull up messages in actual "history" (whether that's 20 min or all time) nor if you do have the history window open and new info is typed, that new info isn't even added in to the window you have active. The only time the new info is added is if you were to have the window up and every few minutes change the slider option in the history window to a different option, THEN the new info loads in. But for all intents and purposes the history functionality is completely broken and useless currently.

    ~Once the page fills up you have no way to scroll up and see what was said before, are you fucking kidding me? That's a joke right? This, if nothing else needs fixed so goddamn badly. Yes i do realize that adding this feature would require some sort of cashe to be setup and the server doesn't have infinite space, but at least give us 2-5 pages so I can take a piss and come back where I left off.

    ~When you click on a user name it opens up the store page, it does have the correct area to send a "whisper" or private chat request. But I gotta think that the programmer didn't intend the store page to be there (more likely the user page). Also clicking on a user name there, then turns the black background of the chat into a red, permanently until you leave & re-enter chat, thus rendering many text colors impossible to read and forcing you to rejoin and likely miss info.

    ~When the the letters lol are typed they automatically become a emoticon, a minor annoyance but its retarded that it does this with lol, yet for the rofl emoticon you have to input syntax thus :rofl: If we want to put in a emoticon we will select the button/syntax to do so, don't force it on us.

    ~If a user posts a link the ONLY functionality that works is to left click it, automatically opening it in a new tab/window, you have zero ability to right click and open the link in any other manor it simply does not work. Once again this is a minor annoyance but we should have the option to do it as we like, don't force it on us.

    ~We need the option to change text size, for me its a minor annoyance by for some with not the best eyesight, its a huge problem.

    ~The invisible/away functionality does not seem to work at all for me (can someone else confirm/deny this?).

    ~When there is over 7+ or so users in the chat room it is not uncommon for one of those users to then get lots of issues they don't normally have in a room of 5.

    So to put this all in a nutshell its not that HIH can't afford to improve it, nor is it that they don't care about us enough to improve it, but there is no voice out there REALLY asking for these improvements, we all just put up with the flawed system we have because its better than nothing, its time that came to an end.
    I went looking around for a alternative, and there are many options, one of which I looked at had more features then the users here would ever need/want, the rights to that software was only $300 for lifetime rights to run the software at 100 users simultaneously.

    Hopefully I'm not the only one that's frustrated by this.
    I spent well over 2 hours typing this post and trying to put my thoughts into clear ideas, so I hope you (the users) care enough to actually bring this to attention if you feel like I do.
  • twlltintwlltin
    Posts: 570
    There's no need to shell out a lot of money on this. Most IRC server software is free, and there are several browser-based IRC clients available for free too.
  • [QUOTE=twlltin;101139]There's no need to shell out a lot of money on this. Most IRC server software is free, and there are several browser-based IRC
    clients available for free too.

    $300 is in no way a lot of money, if that really were the issue (which it isn't its the attention to the problem is) put up a donation pool on the store to offset the cost I'll pitch in $5-10.
    That option i found in like 3 minutes of random searching on Google, I'd be willing to bet there is a even better deal out there somewhere.
    Right but IRC for the (most part) requires the user to know how to correctly set up some portion of thier connection.
    Please correct me if I'm wrong an you know of an extremely user friendly IRC, that does have the various functions we need here, please suggest away.
    ~Back data cash (The ability to scroll up)
    ~PM system
    ~The ability to change your txt or in some other way make your text distinct from others (not NEEDED, but people here use it often and it would be nice to keep)
    ~Unbelievably user friendly, were talking as good as it is now, just log in & click to join (All IRC's I am familiar with require at least some technical setup or address dialing in to get connected)
    ~There is something else I feel I'm forgetting.......
  • twlltintwlltin
    Posts: 570
    I've seen Mibbit used as a user-friendly browser front end to IRC on other forums.
    Mibbit chat network (Glossy page)
    Main Page - Mibbit (Nuts and bolts)
  • Cool Thanks, now we can hope the "powers that be" actually look into such suggestions.

    All the other forums I've seen use IRC are well dedicated to "illegal" internet activity. I've used thier IRC's and all of them have it setup in a hidden manor, i never really looked into it past that and i just wound up assuming all IRC's worked in a similar manor.

    Glad I was proven wrong.
  • rookrook
    Posts: 1,604
    Some individual actions that might help:

    -- We are getting a free wrench here gents and although it's not made of the alloy we might like, it's available. With a bit of organization and style we may be able to improve the results of our labors.

    -- Users of Chat might tailor their RSVP with an intended join-time rather than just adopting the default of Noon-Friday then not showing up at Noon-Friday. Thumk, and plan aheaD (with a large "D") :D

    -- Perhaps the "Masters of Chat" -- the talking stick guys -- might draft up some tweet-sized tips for newbies and old hands alike. Artform, Darwin, Ten_S_Nut, rumel and other old timers would make a great steering group for this action. Better use of Personal Chat and single-line responses would help to eliminate topic interleaving and "clutter"

    -- Hairysack's idea on dedicating a timeslot or day to a specific topic looks great. This could be user driven by a poll-thread in the Forum with the results consolidated in a proposal thread in 'General Discussion.'

    -- A Community Poll might identify potential topics, details and a proposed kick-off day-time for the topic. Perhaps even-hour slots for firm topics and odd-hour slots for open discussion, new ideas, winning techniques, whines and of course Super-O announcements. When a topic might need more than an hour have the poll suggest a time-span in hours. The results and proposed agenda/schedule might be posted in General Discussion then scratched (along with the associated Poll) after the chat day(s). The "Masters of Chat" might appoint a weekly "Hall Monitor" to tend to these details and sweep up the trash.

    -- "History" has been a frustration and does impose more overhead. However, if History is "too hard" then re-establishing the weekly archive would be helpful to those of us who fall asleep and miss something important during chat.

    -- Re: page filling and typesize. While a but clumsy, browsers like Chrome, Firefox and IE8 support [ Ctrl+ / Ctrl- ] to alter type size. The best of the bunch handle word-wrap without fuss. Some, like Chrome, running with a reasonable cache, follow Ctrl- with a page reload to reveal a few extra lines of prior posts. The rationale for running a pair of browsers rather than just working with tabs avoids having the enlarged typesize in Chat from messing up the rendering of the forum. (e.g. I usually run Chrome for Chat and Firefox or Opera for the Forum and the rest of the web.)

    -- Agree that the 'Aneros Store' page popping-up with the Member's toybox content is a distraction but one can't blame Aneros for doing some marketing by showing off a Member's prior purchases.

    -- "Invisible" does work for me within the chat environment (using Firefox, Opera or Chrome on Debian w/Gnome). One can identify "Invisible" members by comparing the Chat roster (right window) with the list of participants on the chat entry page. I avoid "Away" as it's just another resource hog for the server. That said though, I have seen errors when a logged-off member persists in the 'chat-entry' environment after having gone Invisible.

    -- Agree on the maximum capacity of the chat session. I've tried to identify what causes this instability and can find no clue (e.g. distant member with an intercontinental connection, client connection like a cellphone). Perhaps it's a result of attempting to run "History," a lot of "Away" flags or too many "Chatguests." Rememeber that Chatguests, as potential customers, are very important to the financial support of Chat.

    -- Early this year I accessed the prototype chat rooms (chat link inside the Shopping Store). While those embroynic models did support archiving and multiple chatrooms for sub-topics, they appeared to lack many of the standard and desirable IRC features (RFC 2812) that we enjoy in the current chat room.

    -- Despite the security hazards, it's tempting to try something like Google's Facebook Chat Logging app. If anyone has tried it or is using it with Aneros Chat, please post how you did it and how it worked.
  • twlltintwlltin
    Posts: 570
    One minor point: it was mentioned over the weekend that chat discussions became a lot more open when it was known that it wasn't being archived for later display.
  • twil;

    Amen to no corporate archiving. If someone really wants to, they can set up their own logger on their PC.

    Best Regards,

    Dave
  • artformartform
    Posts: 1,482
    Agree ten_s_nut and twlltin!! :D :D :D

    IMHO, the other added feature that would greatly improve the Chat, is Group Private Chat rooms/conferences, as well as the current one2one Private Chat rooms.

    much gratitude to HIHAneros for the chat room as it has been over all these years

    artform
  • twlltintwlltin
    Posts: 570
    The only thing counting against private group rooms is the possibility that it might introduce a clique-y feel to chat.
  • artformartform
    Posts: 1,482
    Good point twlltin!!

    [QUOTE=twlltin;101158]The only thing counting against private group rooms is the possibility that it might introduce a clique-y feel to chat.

    This has been canvased before when chat reform has been discussed. Providing the option of Open Group Rooms, with topic/activity posted, and also Invited Conference Rooms a la Yahoo could mitigate that possibility. We certainly do not want to break the wonderful spontaneous and inclusive sense of the chats now. However sometimes the group there want to explore something that could spook newcomers, and even the most seasoned chatguest!! :D As we may have done perhaps last Saturday or Sunday evening...

    artform
  • twlltintwlltin
    Posts: 570
    IRC, as I'm sure many would be aware, allows both passworded and invite-only channels.
  • [QUOTE=rook;101150]Some individual actions that might help:

    -- Re: page filling and typesize. While a but clumsy, browsers like Chrome, Firefox and IE8 support [ Ctrl+ / Ctrl- ] to alter type size. The best of the bunch handle word-wrap without fuss. Some, like Chrome, running with a reasonable cache, follow Ctrl- with a page reload to reveal a few extra lines of prior posts. The rationale for running a pair of browsers rather than just working with tabs avoids having the enlarged typesize in Chat from messing up the rendering of the forum. (e.g. I usually run Chrome for Chat and Firefox or Opera for the Forum and the rest of the web.)

    -- Agree that the 'Aneros Store' page popping-up with the Member's toybox content is a distraction but one can't blame Aneros for doing some marketing by showing off a Member's prior purchases.




    Cool, I'll have to try that text size change next time.

    The store page isn't the real frustration mine doesn't even load correctly enough to show that it outlines that specific users purchases, it just pulles up part of the header and the rest is fubar , I'm using Firefox, ill get a screenshot of what I'm seeing next time.
    Its that the background is changed from black to permanently red, causing some texts to be un-readable, thus you need to re-join to revert it back to the black background.



    Really just give me the ability to scroll up a few pages and I'll be happy with that. A handful of times I have been in a busy chat and have to go do a quick 5-10 minute errand, like run the garbage to the curb, and when i get back there is no way to see the info that has been moved above the current page, LAAAME.
  • artformartform
    Posts: 1,482

    imperium...
    ...Really just give me the ability to scroll up a few pages and I'll be happy with that. A handful of times I have been in a busy chat and have to go do a quick 5-10 minute errand, like run the garbage to the curb, and when i get back there is no way to see the info that has been moved above the current page, LAAAME.



    Agree completely imperium!! This is a major problem currently, where History is 99% useless.
  • twlltintwlltin
    Posts: 570
    I don't use the userlist in the right hand side, because in Chrome clicking on it changes the format of the chat screen and brings in an obtrusive red background.

    Would anyone be interested in the idea of an unofficial, temporary, IRC server (and associated web-based IRC client) to test out the waters? I have both the knowledge and the resources to do this for free. In no way do I wish to step on the toes of the Aneros staff.
  • artformartform
    Posts: 1,482
    [QUOTE=twlltin;101166]I don't use the userlist in the right hand side, because in Chrome clicking on it changes the format of the chat screen and brings in an obtrusive red background.

    Would anyone be interested in the idea of an unofficial, temporary, IRC server (and associated web-based IRC client) to test out the waters? I have both the knowledge and the resources to do this for free. In no way do I wish to step on the toes of the Aneros staff.

    Same with Safari! That Online "userlist" is the key though to clicking another to Whisper or to invite to Private Chat room. Great offer twlltin!
  • rumelrumel
    Posts: 2,257
    Guys,

    I think you've proposed some good ideas here, though there are some problematic elements. This is a globally accessible Chat Room with members located in Scandinavia, Europe, UK, Australia, S.E. Asia and the U.S.A.; a convenient time period for specific topic discussions is nearly impossible given the different time zones involved.

    Given the immediacy of the Chat Room media any 24/7 usage may warrant real time monitoring to assure civility, we don't want to have 'flame wars' or other such incidences ruin the live experience. For this reason I am not in favor of 'invite only' private chat rooms, however, I am in favor of multiple chat rooms with differing topics of discussion. This would allow members a more specific choice of focus.

    'ten_s_nut' & 'twlltin', I am in support of an archivable history for several reasons. 1.) As 'imperium' mentioned, it would be advantageous to be able to enter the Chat Room and get caught up with the topic(s) currently being discussed by paging back through some Chat history. 2.) Archiving provides documentation for any inappropriate, abusive or hateful behavior, (this has been rare but it has occurred), it assures that members remain respectful of others by being accountable for their input. 3.) Most importantly, some very valuable and helpful information which has not been documented in the General Discussion Forum has been disclosed in these chats, archiving makes this information available to those who were not able to be present and to current and future users.

    I don't know how system resource intensive a 24/7 Chat Room would be but judging from past extented chat weeks there will be large periods of time when no one is present in the Chat Room and that means a lot of "dead air space" for Support to maintain. This may or may not be insignificant.
  • twlltintwlltin
    Posts: 570
    I'm not sure how much Support do at the moment. They're pretty much invisible in chat (which is good in some ways).

    Logging would not be a problem for the main chat channel. The usual way is to have a bot sit on the channel and have that log the conversation. Logging private channels would be less easy. Having the last hour, say, of the "open" chat room available to view (with timestamps) before someone joined via the web interface would also be doable.

    One thing that IRC doesn't usually allow for is "invisible" watchers.
  • I am all for more chat room time, like any other site, 24/7, right?
  • twlltintwlltin
    Posts: 570
    I have prepared a test IRC server, with logging. I will be on chat later this evening (about 7pm Eastern) and shall let a few people try it then.
  • twlltintwlltin
    Posts: 570
    This is a trial of IRC only. If HIH ask me to discontinue it I'll do so without argument. If there is any abuse, I'll shut it down completely.

    Web browser access: https://widget.mibbit.com/?server=92.243.6.142&channel=%23aneros&promptPass=true&authmethod=pass
    Choose a nickname and use the password "helix". The #aneros channel is logged. Access to logs will be made public in a few days (when I've written a web interface to them).

    If you have your own IRC client software, you can use the following settings instead:

    IRC Server: 92.243.6.142
    Port: 6667
    Server password: helix
    Channel: #aneros
  • Count me in!!!!
  • this is only out of my own frustrations, but being a 'computer dumb' person, can you translate what a guy needs to do to try this out? I'm still from a generation who remembers 'dwell readings, setting the points, and leaning out the carb.'...lol it all sounds good that you're making improvements, just need it put into layman's terms...chuck
  • twlltintwlltin
    Posts: 570
    It's still very rough around the edges at the moment. Later on, I'll put together a web page that explains it a little more.
  • twlltintwlltin
    Posts: 570
    To use with a web browser click the following link: Unofficial Aneros Chat

    You can then either join the chat or view the logs. (The interface to the logs is lashed together with twine at the moment, and there's no polish at all.)

    When joining chat, you will be asked for a nickname to use (one is randomly generated for you, but you can change it) and the password, which is "helix" (all lower case). Then click "connect".
  • [QUOTE=bigguy;101123]The regulars are all represented ...add my vote!!!!
    Bigguyimage

    I would use this all the time as well, so add my vote too. Forums are great, but sometimes real time communication is fun too.
  • Agreed. +1
  • rookrook
    Posts: 1,604
    [QUOTE=twlltin;101350]To use with a web browser click the following link: Unofficial Aneros Chat

    You can then either join the chat or view the logs. (The interface to the logs is lashed together with twine at the moment, and there's no polish at all.)

    When joining chat, you will be asked for a nickname to use (one is randomly generated for you, but you can change it) and the password, which is "helix" (all lower case). Then click "connect".

    Many thanks for all the fine work !

    Tried Chatzilla on Firefox but timing seemed very touchy.

    Settled on Konversation over EFnet here with excellent results and looking forward to some great chat. View-log feature is working exceptionally well via the mibbit interface and it's easy to screen scrape for later reference.

    Nice !