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Super-O Society
  • artformartform
    Posts: 1,488
    I am fascinated by the logo and the title under it on the Aneros Wiki page! I think the name Rumel is tied to this...

    I'd like a lapel pin of this and to know what the conditions of membership in the Super-O Society might be, as if it isn't self-evident...

    What is going on here? Please!

    thanks in anticipation

    artform
  • Enemagra
    Posts: 104
    i think the real question is; who will be first to get it tattooed? (not me)
  • rumelrumel
    Posts: 2,265
    artform,

    A short history of the Super-O Society :
    Rumel has vague notions of ways to introduce other men to the Aneros experience in a subtle manner.
    Member ‘Geist’ announces attainment of Super-O status and posts desire for medal to commemorate event.
    Rumel develops mysterious little logo that incorporates a stylized “S” and an “O” (Super-O), and shares design with Darwin and BF Mayfield during work on WIKI development.
    Darwin suggests name “Super-O Society” with no membership criteria other than being on the path to ones own Super-O.
    Rumel adds the graphic into the WIKI for all to see.

    artform – You are more than welcome to use that symbol and create a personal lapel pin, in fact that is one of the uses I had thought would be appropriate for this symbol. I also think an appliqué for shirts and hats would be nice. While I may own the copyright on this creative work, it is my intent that it be shared with the entire Aneros community and the rest of the world for that matter. It is my hope that it may become a subtle symbol for introducing other men to the potential joys to be had through their learning enroute to their own Super-O’s. If enough interest develops, I might consider producing some of these items for nominal costs to help promote the experience.

    Enemagra, Darwin did actually suggest the tattoo after he saw it the first time.

    NOTE : THIS IS NOT GIVING PERMISSION FOR USE OF THIS SYMBOL IN ANY COMMERCIAL ENDEAVOR WITHOUT MY EXPRESS WRITTEN PERMISSION AND SPECIFIC APPROVAL.
  • artformartform
    Posts: 1,488
    Thanks greatly Rumel.

    And congratulations!!! It is a wonderful logo. Very artful.

    All you guys (and the gals!) here are wonderful.

    I have a friend who represents a company that does this kind of work in high quality – pins, clothes etc. – and will enquire about pricing too, just for fun for now...

    onward on the journey

    artform
  • bonerownerbonerowner
    Posts: 121
    post deleted
  • rumelrumel
    Posts: 2,265
    bonerowner,

    I must ask that you immediately remove my copyrighted symbol from use in the commercial products being offered for sale on the cafepress.com/supero site. It is not my intent that anyone should be profiting from my creative efforts without compensation or permission, this is a clear violation of copyright law and violation of my rights under the Berne Convention International Treaty to protect intellectual property.

    Rumel
  • bonerownerbonerowner
    Posts: 121
    rumel said:

    bonerowner,

    I must ask that you immediately remove my copyrighted symbol from use in the commercial products being offered for sale on the cafepress.com/supero site. It is not my intent that anyone should be profiting from my creative efforts without compensation or permission, this is a clear violation of copyright law and violation of my rights under the Berne Convention International Treaty to protect intellectual property.

    Rumel



    Ok - no problem - the store has been closed. I am sorry that I didn't ask you first, but I felt that you had given implied permission by stating:
    rumel said:

    You are more than welcome to use that symbol and create a personal lapel pin, in fact that is one of the uses I had thought would be appropriate for this symbol. I also think an appliqué for shirts and hats would be nice.



    FYI - as stated in the post where I announced the URL to the store - I did not markup the items at all - I was receiving no profit. When setting up a cafepress shop you are able to set the amount of profit that you wish to receive on each item, and as stated I set the markup at 0%, so I was not receiving any profit whatsoever. I can't imagine a scenario where a T-shirt or lapel pin could be made where the manufacturer of that product (in this case cafe press) was not turning any profit whatsoever, so I am confused because I don't see how it is OK to make a lapel pin or T-shirt and yet nobody is allowed to actually do so, yet it is your artwork and I will obviously respect your wishes. I was only trying to help (which I obviously failed miserably at doing).

    I suggest adding your copyright information to the image at the wiki to avoid any further problems or confusion. Currently there is nothing stating that the image is copyrighted in any manner, either with a creative commons license, or otherwise. http://creativecommons.org/license/

    Again, my apologies - the store has been removed.
  • darwindarwin
    Posts: 1,196
    rumel-

    it would be great if you could figure out a way for us all to buy pins, t-shirts, etc

    i would definitely buy some.

    (it does seem that bonerowner was acting in good faith on your invitation to make pins, etc)

    one problem i forsee, however is this: if you need to copyright it (understandable), then the Sign of the Super-O Society would have words attached to it, ie, "(C) Rumel" or whatever.

    the problem is that would make the secret crackable by internet search.

    if the sign has absolutely no verbiage, then the only way somebody could know what secret society you are part of is to have actually seen the sign on the internet, ie, having gone to a site where it is (like this site). such a person would be *qualified* to know your secret.

    but, if the sign had verbiage, then any snoopy person could peer into your secret by typing "rumel" or "copyright rumel" into google. then i would be... BUSTED.

    i would love to wear the SOS, but, could only do so if it was pure graphic, no words (not even a copyright).

    darwin
  • rumelrumel
    Posts: 2,265
    bonerowner and others,

    I have been informed that I need to clarify the issue regarding the use of my copyrighted graphic symbol and apparent misinterpretation of the permission granted to ‘artform’ in its reproduction.
    When I responded to his query in the post I stated “You are more than welcome to use that symbol and create a personal lapel pin,…” , the key word there is personal. It is not my intent or desire to allow unrestricted free use of this for commercial exploitation.
    I know that ‘bonerowner’ wasn’t going to be profiting from these sales but the purveyors of that web site certainly would and they very likely have no care or concern for the interests of Super-O Society members, of which you are all apart. Most likely , they also have no care in promoting knowledge of the Super-O experience.
    When I stated in my post “…it is my intent that it be shared with the entire Aneros community and the rest of the world for that matter.” It is my intent that the symbol be a non-commercial device to initiate interest in and dialogue about the Super-O experience and journey we all are on, it is not to be exploited by third party entities for profit purposes.
    I retain full ownership of this symbol copyright and it is not to be commercially reproduced without my express written permission. I do grant an individual permission to reproduce this for his own non-commercial, personal, individual, singular use, but not multiple copy applications. If you do reproduce it in this manner it will be more meaningful to you and will induce the kind of dialogue with individuals who care enough to ask about its significance.
    I hope that this symbol can generate interest and expand our ability to communicate to others the unique journey we are all on. I accept ‘bonerowner’s apology for creating that web site without my permission, and I apologize for not being clearer about my intended usage of the symbol.
    If other members want to associate this symbol with a product offered in connection with the Super-O experience then I am willing to discuss permitting such use.
    I acknowledge ‘bonerowner’s argument that it is unlikely a manufacturer would produce anything without a profit motive, but there are scenarios that do not put the usage into the profit making or taking realm. For example, it is OK for you to take this symbol to a local jeweler and have him craft you an individual lapel pin for you personal use, because he makes his profit based upon the time it takes him to craft the piece not on exploiting the symbol itself, the same would be true if you took this symbol to a seamstress and requested it to be embroidered on a hat or shirt. In both those cases the person performing the ‘manufacturing’ is profiting via his/her service not by exploiting what may or may not be a popular graphic.

    As I indicated in my original post to ‘artform’ – “If enough interest develops, I might consider producing some of these items for nominal costs to help promote the experience.”
    I am not anti-product in the use of this symbol, I just want it done in a meaningful manner, not to line the pockets of those who don’t care about this community which I have come to respect greatly.

    Darwin – I’m glad you posted in on this topic since you essentially coined the term Super-O Society (that copyright belongs to you) your input is important. I had no intentions of making this symbol secret, and since it is not associated with a product or company it is not subject to trademark law. I think between the two of us we can discuss the possibility of making products bearing the symbol and your “Super-O Society” (SOS) a viable mechanism for spreading the word and knowledge of this wonderful experience.
  • bonerownerbonerowner
    Posts: 121
    darwin said:

    one problem i forsee, however is this: if you need to copyright it (understandable), then the Sign of the Super-O Society would have words attached to it, ie, "(C) Rumel" or whatever.

    the problem is that would make the secret crackable by internet search.



    Not necessarily - as long as some sort of copyright is stated here: http://wiki.malegspot.com/index.php?title=Image:Super-O.png then there would not be a problem. As far as I know there is no way to enter a photo in to an internet search engine at this point in time, so simply having an image or symbol reproduced on a t-shirt or lapel pin will not lead anyone to "crack" anything at all, and will not lessen any copyrights at all.

    If you look at other wikis you will notice that all photos and artwork have a copyright notice of some sort such as this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Aoxomoxoa.jpg or this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Flag_of_the_United_States.svg or this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Smiling_girl.jpg. All user-created images must be licensed under a free license such as the GFDL and/or an acceptable Creative Commons license or be released into the public domain. When licensing an image it is best practice to multi-license under both GFDL and a Creative Commons license. If you were to reproduce those items (that are allowed to be reproduced) elsewhere, it would not lessen those copyright notices at all. You will notice that none of those photos or artworks have a copyright symbol or notice in the picture itself - it is not necessary - the copyright is still intact without one. However, a copyright has to be attached to the wiki if an artwork is to be reproduced in the wiki, and there is no copyright notice in the Aneros wiki regarding that artwork. As suggested earlier, it may behoove interested parties to place an applicable creative commons copyright on that page where the artwork is reproduced. The image copyright tag provides a standard template for the licensing of the image, and the image summary provides necessary details to support the use of the image copyright tag.

    FYI - the cafepress store (that is now deleted) was not accessible by anyone who did not have the URL, which was only posted here. It was not available for cross-marketing or promotion, and was not on any publicly available lists within cafepress, so it would have been impossible for anyone without knowledge of the meaning of the symbol to casually stumble upon the cafepress store and purchase a t-shirt without having been directed from this site. This is all a moot point, but a distinction that I think needs to be made, since there were implications that this was not the case.

    Again - my apologies for stirring up this discussion - it was not my intention to interfere with any copyright or ability for anyone to protect their intellectual property.
  • rumelrumel
    Posts: 2,265
    bonerowner,

    I understand that you were not trying to personally profit from my graphic creation and you weren't intentionally meaning to infringe upon my copyrights nor were you trying to stir up any controversy, but you should also understand that if I wish to retain my rights I must take prudent action to avoid the appearance that I am permitting such actions to take place. I am not going to allow this graphic to become Public Property nor am I going to allow it to be indiscriminately copied under the GFDL you spoke about. I may consider allowing usage under a Creative Commons license for non-commercial uses as that would be consistent with spreading expanded knowledge of the Super-O experience. I think Darwin and I need to discuss this more fully.
    As you have suggested I have moved to establish a copyright symbol on these images in the WIKI, just so others understand that graphic may not be freely exploited.

    P.S. Do you find the polished Aneros a significant improvement over the factory finish? I polished a couple of my models as well but have not found them to be noticeably more mobile.
  • bonerownerbonerowner
    Posts: 121
    rumel said:

    Do you find the polished Aneros a significant improvement over the factory finish? I polished a couple of my models as well but have not found them to be noticeably more mobile.


    Well - if nothing else it looks nicer :) Seriously - I went ahead and polished it before I used it, so I do not have anything to compare it to - I went ahead and modified it before I used it, based on others advice here. I know that I got my first mini-o and I do feel that bigger and better things are waiting for me ahead, so I can't complain about the polished Helix - it works for me :D
  • darwindarwin
    Posts: 1,196
    guys-

    about "cracking the secret" i need to clarify.

    my concern is not over ownership or copyright.

    my concern is that i want to freely wear the Sign without casual acquaintances, etc, being able to figure out what it refers to. i *do not* want to broadcast or advertise to the world details of my personal sexuality. my intention is to wear the pin as a fun thing for myself, and... if somebody sees me wearing it who already knows what it means (ie, has been to this site), then we could bond about it...

    if the sign has on it words such as "(C) Rumel" then somebody who is unduly curious could type those words into google. that search would likely lead to this forum, and perhaps to this very thread, thus revealing the secret.

    darwin
  • artformartform
    Posts: 1,488
    Yikes!!!

    I too am involved in intellectual property issues and protection, so sympathies all 'round...

    This seems to point up the fact that we here are sharing discoveries of generally hidden gifts of nature triggered unintentionally by a patented medical device...

    where a group of users decided to craft some form of society of users/gift recipients/adepts including a graphic identity device designed by a gifted member...

    at which point a potential market arose...

    much to the discomfort of several...

    There is a 25th Anniversary Edition of Lewis Hyde's wonderful book and ideas The Gift: Imagination and the Erotic Life of Property available now with an intriguing new Afterword. Note the corrected title and its greater linkage here!!!

    We are developing a very special gift, or range of gifts here. Maybe reflecting on Hyde's thinking can help us with all of what we are doing here...

    all the best to all

    artform