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Aneros support- their response to request for help getting
  • Bonaparte
    Posts: 22
    I asked Support if I could try a variety of the units and get a refund on the ones that don't work for me. To their credit, they did suggest trying to get in touch with the prostate via other means to get a better idea of what's in there.

    Support's email is at the bottom... My responses to support are just below in bold:

    \"if you never experience results it is not the fault of the product. \"
    There's no way to know that without research. This unit might not be touching my prostate adequately.

    \"The super O is acquired and not given. This is the case for all of our customers.\"
    That is not the case for all your customers. The ones who have super o right out of the box have it given to them.

    \"Based on your comments about the poor design \"
    I didn't say it was a poor design, I said, there may be a poor fit between some guys and some Aneros units (\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"maybe a poorly fitting Aneros (because of variation in anatomy) just increases the length of time it takes to get results\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\") (see my post \"different strokes for different folks\")


    \"Many people as well as myself have tried more than one unit and found certain things more comfortable. \"

    I'm not finding fault with the aneros itself, I'm looking for help to make this work for me. Your saying I thought the aneros was a poor design sounds defensive; I didn't say that. When first I brought up the question of trying other models, you tried to discourage me. Then when I noted that other people tried a variety and got better results, you admitted that you have done the same thing. That's inconsistent.


    Here's what Support said:
    ++++++++++++
    Even if you never experience results it is not the fault of the product. The design is supposed to fit the human body and we would probably have a thousand models if it was so case specific. The super O is acquired and not given. This is the case for all of our customers.

    There are not many companies willing to give you a partial money back guarantee as well as a guarantee at all. Based on your comments about the poor design I can only say that I hope it ends up working for you. I assume you are determined and want to know your bodies capabilities better. Maybe trying a different model will do the trick but there has not been a study to prove what to recommend. Perhaps if we had a room to examine the clients response and figure out what the exact mold should be we still might not have the model for you. Maybe try and contact your prostate manually to become more familiar with its exact location. The perineum or sweet spot should be contacted with the abutment tab. At this time i have no specs sheet to offer. Many people as well as myself have tried more than one unit and found certain things more comfortable. Preference is always important when designing a product. Take the Maximus for instance. It is larger in girth but does not really have any quality that makes it better or more improved. it is just different and some people like it the best.
    ++++++++++++++++=
  • Pan
    Posts: 249

    Originally Posted By: Bonaparte
    I asked Support if I could try a variety of the units and get a refund on the ones that don't work for me. To their credit, they did suggest trying to get in touch with the prostate via other means to get a better idea of what's in there.

    Support's email is at the bottom... My responses to support are just below in bold:

    \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"if you never experience results it is not the fault of the product. \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"
    There's no way to know that without research. This unit might not be touching my prostate adequately.

    \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"The super O is acquired and not given. This is the case for all of our customers.\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\"
    That is not the case for all your customers. The ones who have super o right out of the box have it given to them.


    Bonaparte, I agree with support's recommendation to seek alternative/complimentary means of achieving prostate stimulation rather than putting all focus and responsibility on the Aneros product alone.

    The Aneros cannot guarantee a Super-O for a man, any more than a vibrator can guarantee a G-Spot orgasm for a woman who has never felt her G-spot before. These products are tools and therefore require a certain degreee of cooperation, skill and emotional enthusiasm in order to be effective.

    For this reason, I like to recommend a product called The Deluxe Crystal Wand to Aneros beginners who believe their Aneros is defective/mismatched for their physiology or that for whatever reason they "feel nothing down there."

    The Deluxe Crystal Wand is used manually, and therefore gives you full control of the device, enabling you to explore and discover your prostate for yourself. This greatly increases your chances of feeling pleasurable sensations in your prostate if you never have before, and therefore increases your chances of enjoying which ever Aneros model you happen to own.

    However, in the process of this exploration, one is also likely to realize that direct contact with the prostate does not guarantee automatic orgasmic results. And in fact, even once you do feel orgasmic sensations in your prostate, it does not even mean you always will, every time it is massaged in a specific way.

    Your experience with prostate stimulation may depend on numerous factors including how recently you last ejaculated, the degree of physical tension in your body, your state of breathing, your mood and ability to focus on sensations, not to mention muscular strength and control, as well as the specific motion and pressure you use with the device from one moment to the next. Any one of these issues may help or hinder your sessions on any given day.

    You may feel intense pleasure or virtually nothing, and yet you will most likely be directly contacting and massaging your prostate the entire time. I have found this to be true with both the Aneros and the Crystal Wand.

    A lack of instant results with the Aneros does not necessarily mean it is failing to adequately contact your prostate. In fact, I believe that even if an Aneros were custom designed for a person, they would still most likely have off days with very little pleasure. There's simply more to prostatic orgasms than physical mechanics.

    Of course, I must admit that I find my sessions with the Helix to be more pleasurable and "successful" on average than those I had with my old Classic model. I'm just saying that nothing I've ever purchased or trained myself in has turned out to guarantee results every time.

    I hope I'm not stepping out of line when I say that perhaps Support was discouraging you from spending large amounts of money to find "the perfect Aneros model" not out of a lack of faith in their product, but because no particular model is guaranteed to be effective if you have not already learned to enjoy prostatic pleasure in general.

    I strongly believe that developing certain qualities, skills, and talents prior to using the Aneros are far more effective for achieving the Super-O than simply guessing on which design to try first and hoping for the best.

    It's a very long thread, but in "Automatic Tantra," B Mayfield, Zaneblue, and myself discussed in detail various aspects of what we find helpful in achieving a variety of orgasmic states that can then be applied to the Aneros, rather than derived from it. Maybe some of it will sound appealing to you.

    Best of Luck,

    Pan

  • saibot
    Posts: 5
    Hi there. I guess what this comes down to is that users who seem to have a more difficult time getting results(I am one of them) should keep probing and see what actually works. We should not take advice from those who attain the "O" the instant they put it in their bodies, obviously something is different anatomically or mentally or whatever. The on eissue that is bogus to me is the idea of "relaxation and focus", how can someone who instantly puts in the device and gets a result have been using and relaxation and focus to get there. Strange
    lets jsut kep trying to figure this out
  • Bonaparte
    Posts: 22
    thank you Pan And Saibot for your posts. Very helpful.

    I can feel Support's sincerity in trying to help and I appreciate you for that.

    I am very curious to explore this phenomenon and I was really getting frustrated, thinking that I may be barking up the wrong tree with an Aneros that doesn't fit (but not knowing it...) That's really off-putting. I like to explore... but if I have a bad compass, how can I get anywhere? There was a post I read from a guy who essentially said " I've been sticking this thing up my butt for a year and still don't feel anything." I *really* don't want to be in his shoes. Sheets. Whatever.

    So the crystal wand is a great suggestion. I also suspect that Support may be allowing all those the breathless testimonials to set unrealistic expectations. Before I purchased, I really had the impression: " plug it in- badabingbadaboom!" I think the majority of us who are looking at weeks or months of work to see results would be better served by a more balanced marketing approach:

    "Aneros will probably help your prostate; if you're lucky, it'll feel good, too, - eventually. Maybe even help your piles."

    And the directions and even the document "Things to expect" say nothing about how long it takes the average guy to get results and how much effort the whole thing takes, how much *time* you wind up investing (enemas, relaxing, exploring, etc). Our culture for men takes speedy orgasms for granted, and that mindset comes into the picture here with no corrective, moderating, realistic view to balance it. I am still expecting good things here but I am having an unpleasant reality check intrude on what should be a positive time. I am coping and all that, but I think the customers deserve better.

    Look at all the posts from guys who said " I worked with it for a while and gave up". Something's not right here. I think the documentation needs to be more realistic (but I'm repeating myself here and I think I'll go to bed).

    Thanks again
    Bonaparte
  • mu1ti
    Posts: 61
    I've followed this thread with a lot of interest.

    It's not supports fault that the super O references set guys up for dissapointment if they don't plug & play, I do agree that there's a certain competitiveness about this "super O" label though, not the best way to approach it but that's human (esp male) nature.

    Anyway I took some measurements to test the theory on myself & my findings are here. Accuracy is not guaranteed but I tried several approaches including my deluxe crystal wand.

    I found the depth at which my lower prostate started to feel stimulation was about 55mm and the most sensitive part of the head of my prostate was at around 85mm. Looking at the models I own I can immediately see why my classic didn't get me very far. My Helix gives me a choice between prostate stimulation and tab pressure despite a few mods, when it's fully inserted it is pressing slightly beyond my prostate though I still do get some really good feelings from it. My MGX is the only one which engages fully at both ends.

    I don't subscribe to the 1000 models idea now I've done these tests, I'm convinced that most guys will be fine with any model & find the body position which engages the aneros. Smaller guys might want to think about the SGX though.
    I really don't think it's necessary for these devices to be an exact fit - it's moving and we change shape inside. You just need to be in the right ball park.

    In my case (5'7") I feel that I am 10-12mm short of average prostate depth and that the SGX will fit perfectly (on order - will have it in 3 weeks when US customs have finished prodding it). The others do give me prostate massage but I am thinking that once the head goes past the top of the prostate it impedes free movement of the device - kind of wedged in a little - especially the Helix. Comments on this welcome.

    If there is one extra model I'd like to see in the range it would be a Helix-S! Same deal, scaled down 10-12mm shorter. Just my suggestion but I will buy it :)
    Could give you guys a marketing edge in Asia too!

    Cheers for the debate.


  • zanebluezaneblue
    Posts: 224
    Well, I'm a little cockier, at least when it comes to vaginal orgasms. I'm pretty sure I do know the combination of physiological processes to produce vaginal orgasms, and I'm participating in a formal research study to prove that I know what I know.

    Assuming that our bodies correspond but that vaginal orgasms come easier to women than prostate orgasms to men (just like penile orgasms come easier to men than clitoral orgasms to women)--I'm pretty sure that the four things that determine this ability are high free testosterone, high dopamine levels, moderate and stable serotonin levels and excellent PC muscle tone. This explains the variation in length of time needed to achieve the super-O and also explains why men who do develop the ability are eventually able to have them without having the Aneros or any other device inserted at all (women can also develop spontaneous orgasmic ability from going on my diet). I believe that use of the Aneros will help a man develop strong PC muscles--some men start off with good tone, some men it takes some months to develop good tone. Also the requirement for high dopamine explains why relaxing and meditation techniques help with the super-O, because these practices raise dopamine levels in the brain.

    So because the super-O, especially initially, is such a balancing act for most men to achieve, it doesn't make sense for the Aneros manufacturer to offer a big selection with offers of exchange. That said, I think there might be another solution. Perhaps they could offer a much discounted package deal--something like get four of the devices for the price of two--giving the purchaser a wide variety of fit options. I can't imagine that the actual device itself is all that expensive to manufacture.

    They may also offer more formal guidance for finding the right fit, simply to hit the prostate properly without the goal of the Super-O. Perhaps they could come up with some sort of fitting device that would tell which size would be a good fit for the particular man.
  • Bonaparte
    Posts: 22
    (this post was edited 2005-07-21 14:22:41)

    [edited to remove musings on piracy per good suggestion of mu1ti]
    (this post was edited 2005-07-21 09:19:11)

    (mu1ti)
    It's not supports fault that the super O references set guys up for dissapointment if they don't plug & play,

    OK, Mu1ti, I see your point. I need to be more precise here. As a purchaser and provider of technical support myself , I understand the loop should work like this: customer provides feedback during support session, support personnel route this feedback to product development, marketing, etc.., who *act* on it. So Support isn't actually making the changes necessarily, but they're a part of the solution, ideally. I don't know how the company we're doing business with here is organized. I'm not on a witch hunt or pointing fingers (except up my own butt but that's another story). I'm not trying to rake anyone over the coals or hold someone accountable in an anal-retentive way (my, how that phrase has changed its resonance for me).

    Marketplace competition is how management is held accountable for responding to customers. ... So it doesn't matter whose "fault" it is that the company is not paying adequate attention to their feedback. (A 'boss' fixes the blame, a 'leader' fixes the problem). I'm really just trying to help them get a handle on their market. Maybe the market needs some competition. But when a user dominated thread generates this much *more* technical information already than Support can give (unique depth of user's prostate, different effect of various models), it suggests that the people at this company may need to pay closer attention to their market. And this is a business analogue to the statement below; competition is a fact of life.

    I do agree that there's a certain competitiveness about this "super O" label though, not the best way to approach it but that's human (esp male) nature.

    Gee, I don't think I made that observation or even implied it but so much of what Mu1ti says is so cogent that I will happily take credit for saying something that Mu1ti agrees with. Makes me feel brilliant by ass-ociation.

    ...
    ...lower prostate ...55mm ...head ...85mm. ...see why my classic didn't get me very far. ... Helix ...... pressing slightly beyond my prostate ...MGX ...engages fully.

    This brilliantly illustrates my point (fit matters, a lot, and the company needs to address the issue). Mu1ti's exploration has advanced our knowledge considerably and this approach would be very well included in the company's how-to.

    But then Mu1ti goes on to say:
    I don't subscribe to the 1000 models idea now I've done these tests, I'm convinced that most guys will be fine with any model & find the body position which engages the aneros.
    Let's see... are you saying fit matters enough for you to say that your Classic was a bust, but that fit wouldn't matter if only you'd found the right position? I don't see how that follows. Can you, at this point, as an experienced user, find a position that makes your classic give the same results as your best fitting Aneros?
    Ok, then, if fit doesn't matter but position does, my job now is to go through all kinds of acrobatics and gyrations with the Helix inserted until I go, "mmmm....".? I somehow doubt that. I feel a little twinge if I really relax and the Helix is starting to get pushed out of my rectum, and the sphincter is starting to dilate as though I'm going to drop the Helix out of my body altogether. This makes me suspect that my prostate is really close to the opening. Changing my body position doesn't seem to correlate with good feelings, but depth of insertion does. I just need to get the Crystal Wand, as everyone keeps telling me.

    Smaller guys might want to think about the SGX though.

    That would be me.

    I really don't think it's necessary for these devices to be an exact fit - it's moving and we change shape inside. You just need to be in the right ball park.

    As Bono said: "I still haven't found what I'm looking for".


    ==========
    The inimitable (zaneblue) who is "cockier ...when it comes to vaginal orgasms":

    Assuming that our bodies correspond but that vaginal orgasms come easier to women than prostate orgasms to men (just like penile orgasms come easier to men than clitoral orgasms to women)--...


    Zaneblue, by vaginal orgasm do you mean g-spot, cul de sac, or some other focus for the orgasm? I understood the prostate to correspond to the g-spot, not the vagina as a [w]hole.

    ... thing[s] that determine[s] this ability ...excellent PC muscle tone. ...

    So, towel lifts, too?
    This may be related... in practicing the Key Sound Multiple Orgasm technique, I have been stimulating myself using contraction of some ab muscles, which results in stimulation of the testicles, like having them sucked. By tensing these muscles, I pull the lower abs in toward the small of the back, like sucking in my gut, except lower down than the tummy. When I do that, I also feel my testicles being drawn upward, and it feels like there are two separate thing going on that I could separate if I wanted to. I.e., I am learning I can just pull up on my testicles (creamaster?). This feels good. I wonder if toning these muscles, too, will increase my orgasmic ability.

    ...some men start off with good tone, some men it takes some months to develop good tone. ...

    See, this is the kind of reality check they need in their marketing materials.

    ...Also the requirement for high dopamine explains why relaxing and meditation techniques help with the super-O, because these practices raise dopamine levels in the brain. ...

    Great suggestions.

    ...So because the super-O, especially initially, is such a balancing act for most men to achieve, it doesn't make sense for the Aneros manufacturer to offer a big selection with offers of exchange. ...

    My guess: anatomical fit and training are independent. Either fit matters or it doesn't. It's a separate issue from the length of time to train the response and the supporting structures.

    ...That said, I think there might be another solution. Perhaps they could offer a much discounted package deal--something like get four of the devices for the price of two--giving the purchaser a wide variety of fit options. ...

    Good starting suggestion for finding a way to shorten the learning curve.

    ...I can't imagine that the actual device itself is all that expensive to manufacture. ...

    Which is why this company is in a closing window of opportunity to take advantage of their initial foothold in the market before someone else steps in and figures out how to give guys more and better orgasms sooner (cf. my response to Mu1ti above).

    ...They may also offer more formal guidance for finding the right fit, simply to hit the prostate properly without the goal of the Super-O. ...
    Exactly!

    ...Perhaps they could come up with some sort of fitting device that would tell which size would be a good fit for the particular man. ...

    This is a brilliant suggestion. I suggest something like a clear Crystal Wand with embedded gradations for depth and a sliding collar that will stay put at a measured depth from the outside of the body. (Like the gauge machinists use called a depth gauge). Set for depth x, stimulate and record results. Set for depth x+1, repeat, etc. Will give a response profile by location. Hey presto!, custom fit.


  • mu1ti
    Posts: 61


    Hya Bonaparte,

    Good to chat with you. Much of my post was thoughts rather than reactions to your words but I'm grateful for you helping me look at this in a new way.

    Let's cut the piracy talk though if we can, the Aneros guys have done (imo) some amazing pioneering work & again imo with very high values + they host the forum we chat on. Would seem fair to me, anyway I'm sure they have a world patent sorted so there would be no exports (and certainly no forum) anyway.

    I'm glad the research went down well, maybe you'd like to add to it?

    >Let's see... are you saying fit matters enough for you to say that your >Classic was a bust, but that fit wouldn't matter if only you'd found the >right position? I don't see how that follows. Can you, at this point, as >an experienced user, find a position that makes your classic give the same >results as your best fitting Aneros?

    Hmm, well met, I think I should have gone into more detail on this point.
    Here's a try to explain my ideas (and before I do I'd like to identify as a seeker like yourself rather than an expert which I am not :).

    If my measurements are reasonably sound I have an active zone of around 30mm, having control over depth via body position and contraction strenghth. That means that the odd few mm here and there difference between two men can easily be compensated as above - it's just not necessary to have units for sale in 2 or 3mm gradations imo. 3 bands ought to do it & we have that now.

    My understanding of this is that there will be a discrepancy which does make the difference & in my case I think I need 10mm less than my MGX and Helix. No problem, the SGX is 12mm shorter, I ordered one.

    My concern is that some guys may read a thread like this & feel confused & end up not buying anything. I don't want to be responsible for someone NOT having extended and multiple peak experiences just because there's a size debate. At the same time I'm for open discussion & you are welcome to mail me :)

    >my job now is to go through all kinds of acrobatics and gyrations

    Nah course not, just find your favourite, mine is on my back.

    As Bono said: \\"I still haven't found what I'm looking for\\".

    That's because the streets have no name ;)
  • Maximus
    Posts: 62


    Wasn't it the late Johnny Cochran who said,

    "If the toy don't fit, throw a fit."

    No, that's not right...

    If the toy don't fit, take a... Oh, nevermind.

    -Max


  • Edit
    Posts: 0
    Bonaparte

    I can attest that fit is not that important, perhaps muscle tone and above all mindset are much more important. How do I know? I get consistent results (dry orgasms, no super O yet) with all the models. I have all of them, including one that I think is not being sold anymore, the MGX classic. All of them lead basically to the same result.

    That said, I do find the Eupho less comfortable than the SGX, on account of the Eupho's greater length.
  • Pan
    Posts: 249
    I'd like to say that part of why I don't believe "the perfect fit" should be the focus here is due to my recent experiences with The Crystal Wand. During a session, I can quickly locate my prostate and easily stimulate it, often to a Super-O in short order, but then I may easily lose that sensation soon after. Where did it go? Obviously it's not because I lost contact with my prostate. It's like two people playing tag in an elevator! So I've learned there's more to it than constant contact and motion.

    If I relax and breathe, perhaps throw on a stimulating DVD(or perhaps turn OFF the DVD player and tune into my own feelings, depending...), or gently alternate the movements and pressure I'm using, somehow the feeling returns, almost like magic, and within moments I'm once again riding the fast track to another Super-O. And yet, I'm certain just a moment earlier I was massaging that same spot and...nothing!

    My sessions can easily go on like this for hours. A process of finding, stimulating, climaxing, losing, and once again finding all over again. Sometimes my Super-O's will happen in rapid sucession, with only a minute or two or between them for a series of 7 or more, but just as often my sensations will drop down to virtually nothing for up to 10 or 20 minutes at a time only to suddenly result in another Super-O without warning.

    So again, I really must emphasize that while I do think "size matters" to an extent here, there are certain intangible qualities that seem to play a much bigger role in coaxing those Super-O's out of hiding.

    Although certain models may indeed be a better fit for some folks than others, the chances are that almost any one of them will provide more than sufficient contact to produce a Super-O under the right circumstances.
  • krash
    Posts: 3
    Bit about me- Aneros user for 2 years, MGX and (recent) Helix user. Achieved Super O? Yes. Always? No, but more regularly these days.

    Bonaparte, you are obviously an intelligent guy and I welcome the discussion you have brought to the table in this thread. I had to jump in here.

    My short 2 cents -- I never had the idea that I was guaranteed to have a Super-O. From the various posts I knew when I started that it might take some time. And as far as the testimonials go, they are what they are -- testimonials. I think you saying that the customers on this website "deserve better" is a little strong. More information is (presented in a digestable way) always good, but I think you're being a little too critial here. I mean, we have this forum here where we can basically post whatever we want. I don't know of many other companies that would host a forum like this which generates great discussion but also leaves them open to public criticism on their own site! Plus they offer a money back guarantee!

    Call me a optomist or space cadet, but I just excited by what was possible that I was more than willing to pay fifty bucks for the possibility of something great happening even if it might not happen for me. I thought it was a small price to pay. I don't know. Maybe I have too much disposable income.

    I really can't stress the state of mind thing enough. To reach the super-o I really had to be ass-backward (pardon the pun) to how I used to think. I didn't have super-Os until I didn't even think about one. I didn't use porn, I just turned on some Miles Davis (still do), relaxed, and thought about random things. After a while my thoughts became less like thoughts and more like a really good daydream, and that's when the incredible involuntaries started happening. The more I zoned, the better the sensations got. Whenever I snapped out of the dream, the sensations subsided, sometimes completely disappearing...

    I guess my point here is that for the analytical types out there to just let go. I've followed this forum enough to know that for every guy who tries for a few weeks or a month and gives up there are more who end up having success with the products. I'll dig up the posts. The find other posts by this user feature is great. You can see the progression that other guys have made on their way to having super Os. Bonaparte I really hope that you are one of those guys.

    All the suggestions to how they could improve things are logical and well thought out. Maybe you could offer your services to them . =) A fitting system would be interesting. The crystal wand is interesting too. But the thing is manual, and I don't think I'd be able to zone out while working the thing with my hands. But I would worry less about measurements and... hell I'd worry less about anything and just go with it...

  • BusterBuster
    Posts: 953
    Hi Krash,

    I feel like I should start a new thread, but I was wondering if you would be willing to share more information with us on your success. How long did it take you to make it to the top, etc.

    I think we are always interested in hearing from the experts.

    Thanks
  • support
    Posts: 229
    Greetings Bonaparte and Forum Members,

    Thank you for your feedback, we really appreciate it! We can see that you are sincerely interested in helping us as we are you. Our expectation is that every man can get great results with our products. This is why we offer a money back guarantee on what are obivously non-restockable items. As far as your pre-purchase impressions about instant success go, we agree that some more balanced wording might be helpful to potential users. We have new FAQs about the Super Orgasm in our FAQ section which hopefully will help. The technical specifications on each product details page are relatively new additions as well. And we encourage our potential customers to contact us as far as advice on what device might be best suited for them.

    As far as the fit goes, it certainly is important but not as important as other factors such as those that Pan and Krash refer to. Our FAQ states the devices should be anatomically correct for 98% of men despite the subtle body differences. We have plenty of customers who have had great success with the SGX and Classic, which some might think is impossible because, for example, mu1ti found that "the depth at which my lower prostate started to feel stimulation was about 55mm and the most sensitive part of the head of my prostate was at around 85mm." This is awesome that mu1ti discovered this characterstic about himself and is exactly the kind of self-discovery that can make the "journey" so unique and interesting. However, what might be true for him will almost certainly not be exactly the same for another man. And he might yet find success with the Helix. The point is that there is no technical, mechanical, by the book way to achieve the Super-O... no "Super Orgasm For Dummies." The only thing mechanical per se is the act of contracting and uncontracting the muscles, and this should not be treated as a distinct action but one that hopefully blends seemlessly into the whole experience.

    We are there to provide support in the best and most helpful way we can, but are at times limited in very specific information because the Super-O is very personal and reaching it really taps into the uniqueness of each man, mentally, physically and even on a spiritual level. We really think of the forum as a community and a suggestion we always have is to read and take in as much information here as possible, experiment with different techniques, see what works, what doesn't and continue to learn more about one's self. The forum itself has helped so many users... the staff here is constantly amazed by creative and really, ground-breaking, information found in the posts.

    Bonaparte, despite your the limited success for the moment we hope that you will continue your sessions. We are confident that it will happen for you. And as always, please contact us with any questions. Thanks!!!

    The Aneros Staff
  • mu1ti
    Posts: 61
    What a great response from support.

    I'd like to finish my input to this thread with a couple of little points.

    It kind of comes across to me whilst re-reading the above posts that I take a deeply analytical view of my super O hunt. Well it's partly true but I just want to clarify that I don't carry that into my sessions. Small but important point.

    Re the fitting device idea. Another small but vital point to make..

    I abandoned my classic 2 years ago & re-found this site about 3/4 months ago. I have since acquired a couple of models as above and I have been SO close to the super O on a number of occasions - hey guys lets not forget that until Aneros came along the NEO experience alone was and remains a big deal for men. I've since seen posts with guys virtually lamenting that all they have experienced are 'ordinary' dry orgasms, hence my comment above about the competitive nature of us guys (no crit intended of anyone).
    The point here is that I have taken on board user feedback re the most important realisation of all.

    Know your body!

    So back to the fitting device.. 2 months ago you could have designed, built & sent me one of these and I would have only been able to use it as a depth gauge. That is now changed, I am a little further down the path.

    Free your ass and your mind will follow :)

    Mu1ti - happy customer!

  • Bonaparte
    Posts: 22
    (this post was edited 2005-07-22 19:55:21)

    {clarified some points}
    ========
    krash: I don't want to be unfairly critical here or beating up on Support (who are sincere, helpful, and knowledgeable). At the same time, I am in a business relationship with these folks, so it's appropriate to talk about what's going on. True, the Forum here is something positive we get along with our purchase, but it's not hypercritical of me to point out where we users could be better served with our purchase. And after all, if they're clever, they will take the feedback and use it to improve their profitability, so it's not entirely altruistic of them to provide a Forum.
    Your comment about state of mind is interesting. I wonder if my rational mind (evidenced in this thread) getting in the way is the real problem? I'll definitely take your advice: "hell I'd worry less about anything and just go with it... "
    ========
    Support: Thanks for your timely and thorough reply. When you say: "the devices should be anatomically correct for 98% of men", how do you know it's 98% and not 97% or 99%?
    And:
    "there is no technical, mechanical, by the book way to achieve the Super-O.." And yet people do it... everyone has a strategy. I've read them in the Forum. Put them all together, and you might not have a mechanical process but we'll have an assortment of good techniques leading to more successful users (of whom I would like to be one!). Sound reasonable?
    "the staff here is constantly amazed by creative and really, ground-breaking, information found in the posts"... So why not put it all together in a more accessible organised format than buried in years of posts? Why expect customers to wade through all that when they want results?
    The specs (relating to fit) on the product description likewise are a step in the right direction. But the whole issue of fit is still poorly understood; until it is, the dimensions are not that useful. The fit issue needs a lot more attention to settle the question: are the "getting no results" crowd buying Aneros that don't fit? True, some guys say fit doesn't matter *for them*, but other guys say it does *for them*, so the lucky ones don't prove anything except- they're lucky.


    ============
    mu1ti: Also good point to not take the analytical mind into the sessions. I am working on that.
    As far as knowing my body (another good point, mu1ti), yesterday I gloved up and used a couple of fingers from each hand (one at a time) up in there and could actually feel the difference in texture between the anus wall and the prostate area. The prostate area feels pleasantly fluffy to my finger, and it's right where it should be, but I feel nothing at all with or in my prostate with my finger on it, so I'm not surprised the Aneros does nothing for me. This is key for me in advancing the fit question... I wouldn't know a good fitting Aneros if it bit me in the ass (as the saying goes). My prostate is numb.

    Also I can now say I know from experience where the interior and exterior sphincter are, how big they are, the different sensations from touching different areas in the anus, etc., etc. I haven't learned so much about my body in I don't know how long.

    ===========
    Well, I took a look at the marketing side of the website to see if it was my imagination or if the prepurchase info really did need work, and this is my reaction. THere is indeed a lot that's misleading: unqualified generalisations and unqualified predictions of fabulous results. The FAQ additions mentioned in Support's post are a very welcome step in the right direction; they need to go much further. :

    From the FAQ:
    How about the "Super Orgasm" ... How soon will I be able to have one of these?

    There is no "book" to achieving a Super-O. We wish there were.
    There are enough posts in the Forum to write a decent size book based on what your customers have already told you. Is anything standing in the way of your wish (having the information you already possess in more usable form for customers)? This forum is great but there's a lot of fluff: bellyaching like from that guy Bonaparte; repetition, breathless testimonials, etc., to wade through and it's not organised the way the same info would be in a book. Don't get me wrong, the breathless testimonials are inspiring but what people like me (with no results) need are directions, not postcards from the destination. The forum is like a pile of pieces of string, we need it strung together into a net. I've already spent the money, I would like the accumulated learning in the Forum to do me more good.

    What we have learned is that there are many moving variables in effect on the path to the Super-O.

    So if you have learned all these moving variables why not share them and report all those moving variables in a more usable format and let the customer try them?

    You should set expectations here realistically but you say nothing about the statistical likelihood of results ( "20% of customers struggle and get nowhere; 60% have to work at it for a week or month so, 20% start screaming and chewing the furniture when they open the box"; whatever). I purchased Aneros after reading the marketing materials. On reading the forum after purchase, trying to figure out what I was doing wrong, I got a reality check when I read all the other guys' same frustrations. This reality check is basic to the whole concept of an FAQ.


    =================
    Is Aneros difficult to insert or use in any way?

    The Aneros is extremely simple to use. With a liberal application of lubricant, and a relaxed and open state of mind, anyone can use it.

    But not everyone feels something and to say "anyone can use it" is misleading; it implies "anyone can use it successfully", because it's "simple". Why would anyone want to "use it" if they thought "using it" meant simply "lay around with this thing up your butt and all you get for your time and money is to feel like you've got something up your butt"? So of course everyone takes this to mean they will have a simple time getting results..
    ================

    How soon will I get results?

    This varies per individual. Some people experience multiple orgasms during their first session; others may need several sessions before achieving orgasm.


    And others (what percent?) never have any pleasure from it at all after months of diligent effort. If you don't say *that* in answer to this question (How soon will I get results? ), you are misleading people. Of all the questions in the FAQ that needed frankness, this critical one hasn't been answered honestly.



    =============
    From: "what to expect"

    Extra sensitivity , etc., etc.


    In the section "What to expect", not a word about "some people use it for months on end and all they feel is something up their butt"? I really looked at "what to expect" before I purchased. I zoomed right in on that one; I was not accurately informed.





    The combined stimulative effect will be a stunning experience

    An unqualified prediction: "Will be".





    ==========
    From: What is the Aneros?


    The Aneros converts the anal sphincter’s natural motions and contractions directly into stimulation of the prostate and perineum.

    An unqualified prediction. I feel no stimulation at all, and I'm not alone.



    ------------------------
    The New Male Masturbation


    ... easy method ...
    "Easy", for some. True, it was easy for me to stick this thing up my butt (once I overcame the mental resistance of "poop is nasty" and "only gays stick things in their ass for pleasure", which mental resistance I could have used some supportive advice about beforehand); for many men, *getting the advertised results* is anything but easy.
    These orgasms require no high skill or training.
    I guess it depends on what you mean by "high skill"; but in most cases, if I understand correctly what I'm told in this thread, more than a little training is an absolute requirement for most guys.

    when you insert Aneros Massager into your anus and contract your sphincter either voluntarily or involuntarily, you will feel pleasure and reach orgasm.
    An unqualified prediction (when you insert ...you will ...orgasm.

    Climax is unavoidable
    An unqualified prediction (unavoidable).

    ----------------------

    Why It Works
    intense, prolonged, multiple orgasms can be easily achieved by directly stimulating those nerves
    An unqualified prediction. (easily).

    ===============
    For Pleasure

    Users have reported continuous full body non-ejaculatory orgasms of up to an hour at a time, all without touching the penis.

    Misleading generalisation if there is no qualification added as to *likelihood* of results (what % of users?).
    =============

    from : Guarantee


    We only ask that you give your body a chance to get familiar with the Aneros
    "A chance" needs to be more accurately defined in light of what guys realistically have to do to get results.
    Our policy regarding refunds in relation to the Next-Gen Line:

    Up until April 19, 2005, our 100% Money Back Guarantee Policy covered all of our prostate massagers, including the Next-Gen Line. However, due to abuses of this policy and the sensitive nature of our products, we have been forced to modify the policy, offering a $48.00 refund on our Next-Gen massagers, effective immediately.

    This is curious. I really wonder what these "abuses" are; do they have anything to do with guys wanting to try the different models and send back the ones that don't work for them, the way I had suggested?
    Why is the Next-Gen line different?





    ====================
    Stage 2 - Contraction Exercises

    Now that you are fully relaxed...your body is ready to achieve a new kind of orgasm.
    Reality is that even when relaxed, this is as far as some determined guys have ever gone. I'm "ready"; but where is the pleasure, let alone the orgasm?

    =============

  • mu1ti
    Posts: 61
    You're a marketing type guy right Bonaparte? Imagine if your firm made a device with no moving parts, no electronics etc and it came with a ton of instructions. Your customers would run screaming and rightly so.

    Take your time mate, you're not numb as you say, I'm sure of it - it just takes time and relaxation. When I first re-started this a few months ago I could have easily felt the same way about my body. Now I'm starting to work properly, really changing over the last few weeks & connections are being made emotionally and physically. But if I begin a session worried, stressed or feeling any negative emotions (including goal orientation) forget it - seriously, I just do something else instead.

    Notice I said I am starting to work! Not the Aneros is starting to work.




  • krash
    Posts: 3
    Bonaparte and Buster,

    You know how when you are driving and you start to think about something, then you really get lost in what you are thinking about, and before you know it you've driven 5 miles down a windy road and not even realized it? That is the relaxed state I try to fall into.

    I usually try to take a warm bath before any session. I then start the session by inserting a small amount of lube with a rectal syringe, allow for some time for my body to adjust to the MGX, then slowly start my contractions. I'm usually on my back with a two pillows underneath. This position helps me make stronger contractions than when I'm on my side. With each contraction I can feel the MGX prodding my prostate. I guess I'm lucky that it is a good fit. After about 10-15 minutes I try to get into "the zone" by thinking about random things. It may be the few great sports moments in my life, or my (ex) wife, or something else entirely. If I can't completely zone out that way then sometimes I'll close my eyes and let whatever music I'm listening to take on colors in my mind. With jazz, the bass is usually blue and saxophone is purple, piano is green. Every note played will cause a color to jump, and sometimes I'll just isolate one instrument and follow the one color that way. Does this sound strange? I've never described it before but that's what helps me.

    Anyway, before you know it my heart starts beating much faster and the contractions turn into waves of pleasure starting from my lower abdominals down to my legs. At this point the colors are already gone and I get pulled into less mental and more physical sensations. My whole body feels like I'm on some incredible drug, and I'll arch my back and start shaking. I don't even feel the pillows underneath me anymore, it's like I'm floating. And before I know it it's done and I feel relaxed and energized at the same time. At this point it becomes much easier to get back into "the zone" and start the whole thing over again. The only thing I can compare this to is that it is like ecstacy that radiates from the torso as opposed from the chest, in my experiences.

    That's why I stressed the state of mind thing. I never really have given any thoughts to whether the MGX was optimally engaging my prostate. I always assumed that it was designed properly. I had read over and over on the forum that relaxing is a key to success, but it wasn't until I learned how to relax my mind as well as the rest of myself that my twitching and involuntaries began turning into the waves of pleasure...

    Buster, to answer your other questions, it took me about 4 months before I reached the Super-O. I did two or three 1-2 hour sessions for the first month, but that escalated to four to five sessions a week as I felt myself making progress. I was a little frustrated at first but that eventually gave way to the expectation of more happening.

    I originally really was searching the web for information on the perineum and not prostate stimulation. My wife used to press on my perineum when she would give me oral sex and this always caused me to ejaculate much harder. Long story short, we are no longer together, but her doing that always stayed with me. I'd do it during my solo sessions too and it felt damn good... so I wanted to know why. Reading about the perineum lead me to the prostate which lead me here. I would love to try this out during sex, and hopefully that time will come. Divorced, slightly overweight, forty year olds certainly have more time on their hands. At least this one does.

    I hope this helps.

    BTW, Bonaparte, sorry if I came off a little harsh in my previous post. I am a big fan of my MGX and Helix and have always found the support posts to be very positive. I'm a happy customer... and I wish you success with your Aneros. BTW2, there is a thread somewhere about an Anal Awakening, or something like that. Maybe that's what your prostate needs --- to be awoken from a deep slumber. Speaking of which, it's time for bed.
  • mu1ti
    Posts: 61
    Krash that is a very cool post :) The driving analogy is quite brilliant.

    I've seen the pillows under the back described in other posts. Would you mind describing how you arrange them? Is it for comfort, to raise the curly handle off the bed or is that to affect body position? Just interested!

    Jazz is a really good way to zone out, I tend to use JS Bach, Django Reinhardt (which has an intensely positive emotional reaction with me) and the Kelly Howell Ecstasy CD.

    I can confirm to you that using the Aneros whilst making love is a fantastic idea. It's much more of a sharing feeling than straight ahead pleasuring of a partner. I sincerely hope you can verify this for yourself soon :)
  • Edit
    Posts: 0
    Hi:

    This is one of the few companies where tech support could very easily tell the customer "up yours."

    Those of us who are in tech support for products far different from the Aneros salute you. Short of a MRI, there's darn little way apart from averages and educated guesses, for a proper fitting.


  • zanebluezaneblue
    Posts: 224
    Oh what the heck, let me do my thing.

    First off, as a general ballpark for your free testosterone levels, how often do you masturbate to traditional orgasm every week? When you do, do you have a good strong erection? Also how far do you shoot--does it shoot out or just dribble?

    Are you on any sort of medication? In particular for the dopamine/serotonin balance, do you drink a lot of caffeine or smoke? Also do you consume any stimulants like Red Bull or ginseng?

    As for PC muscle tone, how long did you say you've been practicing flexing with the thing? And can you lift, say a hand towel with an erection?

    I strongly suspect the difficulty is caused by your dopamine/serotonin balance. Brain chemistry influences writing style. In general the men here who have had quicker success have a "groovier" vibe, indication of high dopamine levels. High serotonin, low dopamine is characterized by attention to detail, a certain critical mindset, and a very confident outgoing style--which isn't a bad thing (especially if you are in sales, lol) and it's not something you have to give up to get the Super-O ability, but it is something you have to give up temporarily during your Aneros sessions. I'm not saying to take bromocriptine, Survector or poppers, but you might want to experiment with a mega-dose of DHA an hour before a session and also avoid any stimulants like caffeine for five or six hours before beginning a session. A good product for this is Carlson's Super-DHA. Take a couple of the pills before the session. Don't take high-dose fish oil like this if you are on blood-thinning medication like Coumadin, aspirin therapy, take lots of OTC pain relievers, are scheduled for surgery or are allergic to seafood. Another thing to try is to spend an hour before the session engaging in relaxed, low-impact aerobic exercise. Nothing competitive, but a long brisk walk that doesn't get you out of breath will raise dopamine levels too, and improve bloodflow.

    You say you are practicing the Key Sound. I am too. Are you having success with that?
  • Bonaparte
    Posts: 22

    [quote:migrated]Originally Posted By: zaneblue
    Oh what the heck, let me do my thing.


    Hail Zane, O queen of thread drift:

    I have started a new thread more inline with your excellent suggestions.

    Cheers!

    Bonaparte
  • Edit
    Posts: 0

    Originally Posted By: zaneblue
    Well, I'm a little cockier, at least when it comes to vaginal orgasms. I'm pretty sure I do know the combination of physiological processes to produce vaginal orgasms, and I'm participating in a formal research study to prove that I know what I know.

    Assuming that our bodies correspond but that vaginal orgasms come easier to women than prostate orgasms to men (just like penile orgasms come easier to men than clitoral orgasms to women)--I'm pretty sure that the four things that determine this ability are high free testosterone, high dopamine levels, moderate and stable serotonin levels and excellent PC muscle tone. This explains the variation in length of time needed to achieve the super-O and also explains why men who do develop the ability are eventually able to have them without having the Aneros or any other device inserted at all (women can also develop spontaneous orgasmic ability from going on my diet). I believe that use of the Aneros will help a man develop strong PC muscles--some men start off with good tone, some men it takes some months to develop good tone. Also the requirement for high dopamine explains why relaxing and meditation techniques help with the super-O, because these practices raise dopamine levels in the brain.

    So because the super-O, especially initially, is such a balancing act for most men to achieve, it doesn't make sense for the Aneros manufacturer to offer a big selection with offers of exchange. That said, I think there might be another solution. Perhaps they could offer a much discounted package deal--something like get four of the devices for the price of two--giving the purchaser a wide variety of fit options. I can't imagine that the actual device itself is all that expensive to manufacture.

    They may also offer more formal guidance for finding the right fit, simply to hit the prostate properly without the goal of the Super-O. Perhaps they could come up with some sort of fitting device that would tell which size would be a good fit for the particular man.


    In your post you state that "the requirement for high dopamine" as a sufferer of Parkinson's Disease does this mean that I will never be able to experience the benefits of any form of prostate massage to achieve a super-O? Am I wasting my time?
  • zanebluezaneblue
    Posts: 224
    I don't think so, not if you are getting treatment. The same dopamine drugs that can cause hypersexuality in men and women and spontaneous yawning orgasms in women will probably also help with the Super-O.

    And I'm not even sure yet that there is a connection with dopamine, like there is with women, although I strongly suspect that's the case. B. Mayfield tried the fish oil with no change in sexual response.