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Dangers of Kegel exercises - and of Aneros ?
  • Hi,

    Searching about how to delay ejaculation, I have seen that the Kegel exercises may be harmful. It can have the opposite effect of making ejaculation very quick without possibility to change that problem.

    If that is true about the excessive Kegel exercises, then it seems to me that the Aneros would have the same negative effect and would be harmful. I wonder why the Aneros website does not say a word about that possible danger of excessive Aneros use that might lead to premature ejaculation.


    See below the explanation about excessive Kegel exercises:
    http://www.herballove.com/library/resource/prematureejaculation/kegelexercise.asp

    I wonder if that is proved about the hormones that form because of Kegel exercises.

    ---

    The Kegel exercise has been shown to have vast improvements on the penis. But in excess, the exercise can also be very harmful. The reason is contraction of the prostate muscle triggers the prostate's sympathetic nerve to induce an ejaculation. While men tend to contract the PC muscle to assist the erection if they feel their erection is not hard enough, a long-term practice of this exercise will make the muscle develop more testosterone, dihydrotestosterone (DHT), and oxytocin receptors. These hormone receptors make men and women achieve an orgasm quicker and more easily, due to the presence of more hormones trapped in the sex organs. This is just fine and dandy for women who have difficulty achieving orgasm, as some do. The Kegel Exercise was originally intended for women with such problems. But for men, reaching an orgasm this quickly could be the end of their sex drive. Eventually, this problem will become the norm and that is when the diagnosis results in premature ejaculation. Simply put, doing PC exercises will make you secrete pre-come quicker and stimulate your urethra, lubricating it for ejaculation and manipulating you into ejaculating prematurely.

    It’s Fallen and I Can’t Get it Up!
  • rookrook
    Posts: 1,604
    I think it's important to understand that PE isn't the result of a single cause --> effect relationship; and, one size doesn't fit all.

    I prefer non-commercial peer-reviewed papers. Here are three:

    PE comes in different flavors with sometimes a single or combination of causes:
    < http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=1530139 >

    General overview:
    < http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/1575070 >

    Good general treatment discussion --
    (the right mouthwash might not only help you get laid but might keep you going for longer :) :
    < http://tinyurl.com/yedadjq >

    I've gone the PE route a couple of times and am blessed with an excellent Urologist who is quite good at asking questions and offering effective solutions. He never proposed the mouthwash but has used Kegels (coached by my wife), tri-cyclics and anti-depressants with excellent effect. (Both the tri-cyclic and anti-depressant required a second try with a different med -- again, it's not a simple, "you have this, take this pill" situation.)

    The three times I've seriously undertaken Kegels, I've never found them 'causative' of PE or made me less able to control my own build up. Au contraire, they've been beneficial. Aside from medications to break a psycho-sexual response, my best results have been from self-edging and having my wife edge me in response to my verbalizations. The later is serious but joyful fun for two!

    However, just for grins, I'll toss out the question on a couple of the major ASI forums. I'll post any of those responses on this thread. ...rook

    Follow-on edit ---
    As far as Aneros use is concerned. (Note: I'm still wired str8-monogamous) My foreplay sessions w/SGX are longer, more varied and better paced, intensity wise, than before I started using the Aneros. Aside from using the SGX, Aneros has: enabled me to better sense my approach to Trad-O and somewhat improved my mental discipline during foreplay, brief insertion and when thrusting after intromission.

    My Trad-O (before lapse into ejaculation) has increased in length, timewise. It had deteriorated to less than two seconds when I started the journey. It's now over three seconds-- long enough for me to begin to sense what it really feels like! Gud stuff.
  • rumelrumel
    Posts: 2,257
    (Note : Underlined Text is a Hyper-Link)
    Hi MrSpoky7,

    Welcome to the Forum,

    I am somewhat skeptical about the claims made in that article you cited. I have read many articles over the years about the benefits of Kegel exercises for both men and women and have never seen a disclaimer ( “... most of these magazines and websites contain a disclaimer...” ) about the alleged harmful effects of excessive Kegels nor does the author make any effort to define what constitutes “...overuse...”. I seriously doubt that many men would be using their Aneros so much that they would even fall into the category of excessive Kegel exercising.

    I have personally been using the Aneros prostate massagers regularly for more than 2½ years and have seen no tendency towards premature ejaculation as a result nor have I read any reports from veteran users of this product of such effects. I would be very interested in seeing the research study(s) upon which this claim is made. This claim seems a bit specious, IMHO, that is probably why there is no mention of it on the Aneros website.
  • rookrook
    Posts: 1,604
    I think we can forget all about this one.

    A second read of the herbalove webpage showed some technical inaccuracies in descrbing the erectile process. The analogy to smoking wasn't well handled by the writer. Dr. McNiff's "biography" is a hodgepodge of miscellany.

    I felt that any M.D. who 'reviewed' the article would have not allowed his/her name to be used.

    A trace on Dr. Mitchell McNiff, M.D. indicated a business address in Alhambra, California where he is shown as "medical director" of Herbalove.

    Unfortunately "Dr. McNiff" isn't licensed to practice medicine in the state of California.

    Nor is Dr. McNiff shown as a medical provider in Medicare's directory of medical providers (both 'participating' and 'non-participating') -- the search was done for Urologists and, "non-specified."

    Since the article was supposedly "reviewed" 6 years ago Dr. McNiff may have died.

    Giving this doubtful situation some benefit, I ran a genealogy based search of census and death record data. (Used the LDS site and Kindred Konnections which dumped me on Intelisus.) NADA! So I went on to People Finders (usually good for this sort of effort.) Alas, no Mitchell McNiff, Doctor or otherwise.

    Methinks it's all smoke. :roll: :shock: :oops: :!: :!: :!: ...rook
  • B MayfieldB Mayfield
    Posts: 2,077
    rumel said:

    (Note : Underlined Text is a Hyper-Link)
    Hi MrSpoky7,

    Welcome to the Forum,

    I am somewhat skeptical about the claims made in that article you cited.




    I'd take this a step farther, I'm somewhat skeptical about this website! Information is presented without any citation of research or case studies to back it up. The most they give you is that the editorial was reviewed by an M.D in the header. It's ironic that they lambaste unidentified popular magazines for advocating Kegels and for giving perfunctory disclaimers about overuse. Yet, many such articles are often born out of research which they cite in one way or another, e.g. "A recent study out of Johns Hopkins University contains some strong warnings about popular herbal remedies....." This site offers less foundation for it's claims than the sources it seeks to discredit! Also, I have to say that it's kind of interesting how it is set up. They've generated "editorials" on various medical conditions and provided links to herbal remedies which they offer for sale. Yep...it's a merchant site! Given all of this, I think it's best to take their warnings about Kegels with a grain of salt. (I found no other hits on "over use of kegels" other than theirs).

    Until I see some decent sourcing for this claim, I'm going to stay with conventional wisdom on this, that PC exercise is beneficial for men and women.


    BF Mayfield


    p.s. Rook, I didn't see your comments on the illustrious Dr. Mc Niff prior to posting. Good work. I thought I smelled a rat here. Speaking of smelling, "niff" is actually a word in British slang for " a stink..." , coincidence?
  • rookrook
    Posts: 1,604
    Couple of comments from the ASI gang after I posted the Herballove link --

    ============== ================ ============

    " This site (sic, Herballove) is off base. Beware of sites that can't spell the body parts correctly
    - "prostrate" is to lay prone on the floor. They are there only to sell ...."

    =============== =============== ============

    The following comment is from a gent who knows pelvic floors from the inside: :D (I luv gay contributions to ASI...we all learn so damn much from them !) ....

    "... The diagram and the description of how to do them (Kegels) seem correct, but the additional bit about their causing premature ejaculation is almost certainly to sell the herbal concoction they are advertising.

    I like for my men to be in good shape as far as their pelvic floor muscles are concerend because they come into play when a man is being fucked and make it a lot more exciting for the top and I'm pretty sure, for the bottom as well.

    And while I doubt that Kegels can cause premature ejaculation I think I'll do a search on line. If I find anything that sounds likely, I'd forward it to the list.
  • OK.
    I quite agree with you that the website looks fake. It should be illegal to sell by lying.

    It seems very strange that Kegel exercises would increase the number of receptors to certain hormones.
    And there are no other information on harful effects of Kegel exercises.


    But I could not see myself that it is a fake website. It seemed to me so much seriously presented with scientific explanations.
  • B MayfieldB Mayfield
    Posts: 2,077
    MrSpoky7,

    There's is no question that vendors have become very "creative" with selling products on the internet in recent years. It's something that we must all be aware of as we're out there checking out different sites in order to expand our knowledge on a particular subject. The truth is that there are some very good sites that combine some sort of merchant capacity with informative content. I did not intend to malign every site out there that would attempt to support themselves by offering items for sale. But ones like this that set up "straw men", manufacturing afflictions that they sell ready made solutions for, should be avoided.

    BF Mayfield
  • tokertoker
    Posts: 128
    i have a personal theory on how men achieve erections and orgasms and i dont think kegels could lower your sex drive its all about mental attitude if you spyche yourself out its game over be arrogant in your head or out loud if your partner is into it you have to think im the boss fuck her orgasm ill come when i want dont be a prick to your wife though its just a feeling a mental attitude i guess thats why arrogant bastards that beat and rape their wife or a poor woman who they happen upon never seem to have that issue nature is cruel
  • airbagairbag
    Posts: 116
    I think the term "premature ejaculation" is ... sexist. How many guys would be offended if their girlfriend often came very quickly ? Not many, I think. We love watching extremely horny girls. But a man coming crazy as hell and having a great time is considered selfish. Being very sensitive in bed is wrong, it's your fault !

    Since I started doing a lot of kegels, I tend to reach orgasm quicker. It has nice side effects like being able to orgasm easily from oral stimulation even without hands. There's more to sex than genital-genital thrusting. I absolutely love licking pussy and fingering them.
  • If kegals can produce PE I am contracting now! I would love to speed up my path, the poor Mrs golfball has known to get sore!
  • airbagairbag
    Posts: 116
    [QUOTE=sittingonagolfball;99348]If kegals can produce PE I am contracting now! I would love to speed up my path, the poor Mrs golfball has known to get sore!

    For the record, so you have something to compare to... At this point I'm doing (it was less initially)

    (10 second contraction, 10 second rest) x 15, then
    (15 second rest, (1 second contraction, 1 second rest) x 60) x 8

    I do this routine twice a day, except on my Aneros days. It's somewhat hard to compare because the change came gradually, but I'm pretty sure it made me come quicker. And it started before I got my Helix, so Aneros is not to blame.

    By the way, sitting on a golf ball can't be good for your health. It's been proven that a wrong bicycle seat can make you infertile. Think about it.
  • Billy11
    Posts: 280
    I must say after I started using the Aneros and when I was doing kegal exercises regularly It made me have absolute control over my ejaculations. Anytime I would get to what used to be the point of no return I could do one of two things. Either squeeze my PC muscle or my favorite, relax my pc muscle completely. I would only squeeze it if I absolutely had to. But when I had that baby in tip top condition I could just relax it instead and feel wonderful pleasure but avoid ejaculating. I would feel contractions like I was ejaculating but not because of the control.
  • 24fps
    Posts: 8
    Not sure if I agree with the article 100% but in my case ever since I've discovered my prostate and prostate play things have taken a turn.

    Before when I was masturbating or having intercourse ejaculation would slowly show itself over a nice period of time but now here's what happens, let's use a masturbation session as an example:

    1: As soon as the erection comes I feel very sensitive. There is a flow of pleasure that starts from my prostate and ends at the gland.
    2: I have to masturbate slowly otherwise I will ejaculate, the sensation is that strong.
    3: Precum goes into full scale production 5 minutes into a session
    4: The precum stage will last about 10-20 minutes, at this point I am still hypersensitive but it is somewhat more controllable
    5: Precum production will decrease and then things switch into cruise control and I can ride the wave for as long as I want.

    Again this started since I awoken my prostate (thus doing kegels) now even though I go through a hypersensitive stage I can still control my ejaculations but it is been a lot harder to do so than before my awakening. Now this applies to masturbation and intercourse, for oral sex things haven't changed a bit.

    Of course having an Aneros model inserted when any stimulation will make me lose complete control over my ejaculations and will do so sometimes in a matted of seconds.

    So even though my PC muscles have never been that strong it seems that the effect for me is the opposite because all in all I believe that I have lost some control if I compare to before the awakening.
  • airbagairbag
    Posts: 116
    Billy11:

    It's also my impression that I actually last shorter if contract PC muscle prior to orgasm. I mean - I can contract it strongly, but then there's no coming back. And the resulting orgasm can be quite a bit stronger.

    If I overdo it, though, I get no ejaculation at all (but still get refractory period). That's not pleasant for me, it makes the orgasm a bit less satisfying.

    I haven't really tried relaxing kegels completely. You say it works ? Do you also stop thrusting/touching yourself ? I tried controlling it this way and it's pretty much the only thing that works.

    24fps:
    Since I started aneros sessions I have to admit I ooze much more precum during normal masturbation. I get very wet and sensitive. So my experiences seem similar to yours. It's so much that I actually have trouble putting on a cock ring or a condom without ejaculating - that is, after masturbating for some time. Or even pulling my foreskin away with two fingers, to minimize friction. The sensation of foreskin sliding away from my penis head can be too much.