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Aneros for medical usage?
  • Ranch11
    Posts: 6
    Hi all,

    I'm not sure how much you guys will know about this, but it's worth a shot.

    I've looked into the Aneros before as a pleasure tool--and it's very intriguing to say the least, even though I've never attempted anal play. However, in recent months, I've started having symptoms that have affected my sex drive and sexual performance (solo, but it's still performance!). My doctor believes it's Prostatitis, an infection / inflammation of the Prostate, and from what I've read online, it seems to be an accurate diagnosis.

    Now--it seems that not all doctors quite understand this problem. I've been on two different antibiotics now, and my symptoms are not going away. This points to the problem being chronic. I've read online about different methods of "fixing" chronic prostatitis...and a lot of people seem to think that prostate massage/drainage is the best way. Now, if I had a life partner who was willing to do this manually, I'd give that a try...but I don't.

    I'll be going in for a CAT scan possibly relatively soon. If the doctor doesn't give me any decent ideas for treatment, I may go the prostate massage route myself. My question is--is the Aneros a device that could be used for medical purposes such as prostate drainage? I've read that the "sides" of the prostate should be massaged rather than the "center" during a massage/drainage, and that symptoms could possibly subside if done often enough, specifically while on antibiotics.

    Has anyone heard of this device, or anything similar, aiding in this medical way?

    Thanks!
  • darwindarwin
    Posts: 1,196
    what are your symptoms?

    darwin
  • Ranch11
    Posts: 6
    I realized I didn't exactly say my symptoms after posting...

    I have, throughout the day, on and off dull pelvic/perineum/anal pains. Some days none at all, others are rather taxing. Stress seems to make it worse, as I've noticed them more during my finals.

    The most obvious symptoms are after ejaculation. My urethra is always rather red and irritated, but after ejaculation, it becomes very inflamed and rather painful, ESPECIALLY if I get an erection anytime up to about 6 hours after masturbating. My entire prostate-related pelvic region (testicles, perineum, lower anal) also aches quite a lot after ejaculation, and sometimes it's very bothersome to even stand up for a while.

    My doctor said my prostate was "mushy" when he did a DRE a few months back, and when he touched it, a shooting pain went through my prostate, all the way through my penis, when I expelled a small amount of fluid. He did not do anything about this, although I'm thinking he should have cultured this extract, in case it was bacterial? My urinalysis came back negative.

    I may be overreacting, but I feel as if I may not be getting the best treatment for my problems.

    Also, if age matters, I'm 21.
  • artformartform
    Posts: 1,488
    Hi Ranch 11

    Sorry to hear of your prostate problems. I have found Aneros use to be very beneficial for my prostate. I have had chronic BPH for years and several serious bouts of Prostatitis in my late teens and early twenties and again in the last decade and a half (I'm 62). Aneros massage has ended sleep interrupting urination requirements, often results in a full stream again, and has brought my PSA down to less than 1 on the scale where 4 indicates a possible problem.

    The last time I have been tested and diagnosed with full Prostatitis (pre-Aneros), it took 3 months of high dose antibiotics to get rid of it, with several nasty side effects. Now, if I suspect I might have it again (rarely), the Aneros practice seems, I say seems advisedly, to enable the symptoms (never as dramatic as yours) to disappear so that I have not had a case diagnosed in the last two plus years of using my Aneros.

    all the best to you both medically and if you pursue the other Aneros potential

    artform
  • rumelrumel
    Posts: 2,265
    (Note : Underlined Text is a Hyper-Link)
    Hi Ranch11,

    Welcome to the Forum.

    I am sorry to hear about your diagnosis of prostatitis.
    While traditional Asian medical practices have a long history of applied prostate massage as a beneficial health practice, it is not without some risks. You may want to do some reading on the Aneros parent site High Island Health which discusses in more depth the health aspects of these massagers.

    I am not a doctor but what I have read to date is that you should avoid prostate massage if you are experiencing an active bacterial infection causing your prostatitis. This is a situation which you should openly discuss with your urologist to avoid worsening the condition. If you feel you are not getting the best treatment by all means get a second opinion/consultation. From your description of the situation this is something that requires immediate attention to get some resolution.

    I also sent you a PM with some tips and hints.
  • Ranch11
    Posts: 6
    I've read this about not doing massage with a bacterial infection. However both antibiotics have been ineffective, and the urinalysis negative, so I'm unsure if it IS bacterial. I've also read it's possible it is bacterial, but hard to detect without testing semen and/or prostate secretions from massage.
  • B MayfieldB Mayfield
    Posts: 2,077
    Ranch11,

    I'm sorry to say that my troubles with prostatitis began when I was around your age. Since that time I've consulted with over a dozen specialists on this. On several occasions I've felt more knowledgeable than the doctor....not a good thing. That said, I'm not a doctor, so consider the following with that in mind. The fact is that as conditions go prostatitis is a difficult one to treat. Part of it is that it is often difficult to establish causation. There are several different schools of thought that are out there with respect to this that you should be aware of.

    The first is that prostatitis is bacterial in origin. So why is it often unresponsive to many powerful antibiotics? There are several different opinions on this as well. (There are only a handful of drugs that are prescribed for prostatitis anymore, Levaquin and Cipro being the platinum and gold standard respectively, where Septra DS and Doxycycline are the older line drugs of choice). Antibiotic therapy requires good circulation and absorption in the area of the body that's being targeted. Unfortunately, circulation and absorption in the prostate is not as good as in other organs and glands in the body. Further hampering the situation is the structure of the prostate itself. The prostate is made up of thousands of sac like structures called acini. It is believed that in some cases these acini become infected and wall off, preventing the antibiotic from developing an adequate concentration where it is most needed. Lastly, there is a theory that some as of yet undiscovered bacteria may produce biofilm similar to Staph aureus or E. Coli. effectively shielding the organism from the antibiotic.

    So how do you know for certain that you have bacterial prostatitis? If you're showing acute symptoms, a high fever, producing pus or blood in the urine accompanied with pain and aching in the pelvis and lower back, it's generally regarded as presumptive evidence for some sort of active infection. But when the symptoms are less severe; moderate pelvic pain (dull aching in the rectum, testicles), painful urination before, during or after ejaculation.... the answer is less clear. Bacterial prostatitis may be a one time occurrence or it may be chronic. In the case of chronic bacterial prostatitis, it is not know why some individuals seem to be more susceptible to it than others. Presumably this is due to organisms occasionally migrating up the urethra or perhaps such bacteria are harbored transiently within the prostate (within acini, as above) at low levels such that one is asymptomatic for long periods of time followed by "flare ups".

    In terms of non-bacterial prostatitis, one theory involves a type of inflammatory response within the prostate. Be aware that one of the byproducts of chronic inflammation is the build up of calcium deposits in the body. These deposits occur in the form of hard jagged crystals. After a while the mere presence of these crystals can be irritating to surrounding tissue. So while it is possible for a bacterial infection or series of infections to have been the initial source of the condition, the process is later propagated by the presence of calcium deposits. It has also been suggested that in the case of chronic prostatitis that there is some neuropathy (nerve changes/damage) that takes place as a result of continuous inflammation that sets one up for this condition. Diet can play a role in this model as well, as it can become as trigger that sets off further inflammatory episodes.

    Another theory in the non-bacterial area that has gained a lot of ground lately involves accumulated muscle tension within the pelvic girdle. In his book Headache in the Pelvis author David Wise makes a compelling argument for the use of trigger point release as a method for relieving the symptoms associated with prostatitis.

    There is even a theory that suggest that presence of heavy metals in prostate, from bio-accumulation (via the food we eat and the water we drink) as a culprit.

    When it comes to prostatitis, a doctor may very often treat the condition as a means of determining it's cause. Therefore, if one has severe symptoms that are resolved after a course of antibiotics and it doesn't return, it's commonly assumed that one has had a bout of bacterial prostatitis. But if the condition persists or becomes chronic (coming and going over time) a true cause and an effective form of treatment are more elusive. My theory is that there are often several factors that are involved that play roles in developing prostatitis into a more long term, chronic condition. For example, consider an individual with a susceptibility to certain organisms that create a series of inflammatory responses that establishes the presence of calcium deposits in the prostate that leads to more inflammatory responses and neuropathy.


    Getting back to treatment, when it come to acute prostatitis, one should never attempt any type of prostate massage, certainly not without a doctor present. Doing so is likely to exacerbate the condition. When it comes to the less severe, more chronic condition that has been unresponsive to single forms of therapy, I think that one should look to a multifaceted approach. This involves antibiotic therapy when the flare up is severe, teamed with some form of gentle prostate massage... like the Aneros. Where prostate massage comes in is to increase the circulation within the prostate. In doing this one is essentially promoting a higher concentration of the antibiotic within the gland. Even with this kind of prostatitis, it is important than one stay with the more gentle massage (the more vigorous type can aggravate the condition if calcium deposits are present and therefore should only be performed by a doctor, if at all ).

    With respect to taking antibiotics, just make certain that the course is at least 4 weeks in length (Levequin may be a little shorter). In my experience, anything less will be totally ineffective. Be advised that most urologists are aware of this, but that many general practitioners are not! Be aware that antibiotics have side effects also, particularly when taken over longer periods of time, so do some research and understand what you're getting into first, particularly if you are taking any other medications. While some doctors may prescribe longer courses (2 to 3 months), know when to stop. If you're not having some degree of relief within 30 days, the chances are that 60 more days won't make a difference. The sad truth is that some doctors will keep you on an antibiotic even when it's not helping! This is generally the case when they've run out of options. (Back in the 80's on one occasion I was actually prescribed Septra DS for well over a year! After 12 months I was no better and had developed an allergy to Sulfa and Trimethoprim, the principal ingredients of this compound).

    Dietary modification can also be used in as a part of a multifaceted approach. Spicy foods, alcohol and caffeine can often trigger inflammation (they're also known to spike PSA). Just bear in mind that avoidance may require a life-long commitment! There are certain supplements that can be helpful as well. Some like Saw Palmetto and Zinc you may know, others like Quercetin and Bromelain are less well known but have been shown to provide relief for some prostatitis sufferers. These can be found in isolate form at health food stores or in certain formulations such as Q Urol. (Q Urol is the only supplement of this kind that has actually been studied by a medical university -- John's Hopkins).


    I can tell you that this multifaceted approach is the only thing that has ever worked for me. When I do have symptoms at this point it is only because I've fallen off the wagon with respect to the diet in some way. Thankfully I haven't had the need for antibiotics much in recent years. In so far as maintenance goes I've found the use of the Aneros, dietary modification and supplementation sufficient to keep me symptom free.

    BF Mayfield
  • B MayfieldB Mayfield
    Posts: 2,077
    [quote=B Mayfield]Ranch11,

    I'm sorry to say that my troubles with prostatitis began when I was around your age. Since that time I've consulted with over a dozen specialists on this. On several occasions I've felt more knowledgeable than the doctor....not a good thing. That said, I'm not a doctor, so consider the following with that in mind. The fact is that as conditions go prostatitis is a difficult one to treat. Part of it is that it is often difficult to establish causation. There are several different schools of thought that are out there with respect to this that you should be aware of.

    The first is that prostatitis is bacterial in origin. So why is it often unresponsive to many powerful antibiotics? There are several different opinions on this as well. (There are only a handful of drugs that are prescribed for prostatitis anymore, Levaquin and Cipro being the platinum and gold standard respectively, where Septra DS and Doxycycline are the older line drugs of choice). Antibiotic therapy requires good circulation and absorption in the area of the body that's being targeted. Unfortunately, circulation and absorption in the prostate is not as good as in other organs and glands in the body. Further hampering the situation is the structure of the prostate itself. The prostate is made up of thousands of sac like structures called acini. It is believed that in some cases these acini become infected and wall off, preventing the antibiotic from developing an adequate concentration where it is most needed. Lastly, there is a theory that some as of yet undiscovered bacteria may produce biofilm similar to Staph aureus or E. Coli. effectively shielding the organism from the antibiotic.

    So how do you know for certain that you have bacterial prostatitis? If you're showing acute symptoms, a high fever, producing pus or blood in the urine accompanied with pain and aching in the pelvis and lower back, it's generally regarded as presumptive evidence for some sort of active infection. But when the symptoms are less severe; moderate pelvic pain (dull aching in the rectum, testicles), painful urination before, during or after ejaculation.... the answer is less clear. Bacterial prostatitis may be a one time occurrence or it may be chronic. In the case of chronic bacterial prostatitis, it is not know why some individuals seem to be more susceptible to it than others. Presumably this is due to organisms occasionally migrating up the urethra or perhaps such bacteria are harbored transiently within the prostate (within acini, as above) at low levels such that one is asymptomatic for long periods of time followed by "flare ups".

    In terms of non-bacterial prostatitis, one theory involves a type of inflammatory response within the prostate. Be aware that one of the byproducts of chronic inflammation is the build up of calcium deposits in the body. These deposits occur in the form of hard jagged crystals. After a while the mere presence of these crystals can be irritating to surrounding tissue. So while it is possible for a bacterial infection or series of infections to have been the initial source of the condition, the process is later propagated by the presence of calcium deposits. It has also been suggested that in the case of chronic prostatitis that there is some neuropathy (nerve changes/damage) that takes place as a result of continuous inflammation that sets one up for this condition. Diet can play a role in this model as well, as it can become as trigger that sets off further inflammatory episodes.

    Another theory in the non-bacterial area that has gained a lot of ground lately involves accumulated muscle tension within the pelvic girdle. In his book Headache in the Pelvis author David Wise makes a compelling argument for the use of trigger point release as a method for relieving the symptoms associated with prostatitis.

    There is even a theory that suggest that presence of heavy metals in prostate, from bio-accumulation (via the food we eat and the water we drink) as a culprit.

    When it comes to prostatitis, a doctor may very often treat the condition as a means of determining it's cause. Therefore, if one has severe symptoms that are resolved after a course of antibiotics and it doesn't return, it's commonly assumed that one has had a bout of bacterial prostatitis. But if the condition persists or becomes chronic (coming and going over time) a true cause and an effective form of treatment are more elusive. My theory is that there are often several factors that are involved that play roles in developing prostatitis into a more long term, chronic condition. For example, consider an individual with a susceptibility to certain organisms that create a series of inflammatory responses that establishes the presence of calcium deposits in the prostate that leads to more inflammatory responses and neuropathy.


    Getting back to treatment, when it come to acute prostatitis, one should never attempt any type of prostate massage, certainly not without a doctor present. Doing so is likely to exacerbate the condition. When it comes to the less severe, more chronic condition that has been unresponsive to single forms of therapy, I think that one should look to a multifaceted approach. This involves antibiotic therapy when the flare up is severe, teamed with some form of gentle prostate massage... like the Aneros. Where prostate massage comes in is to increase the circulation within the prostate. In doing this one is essentially promoting a higher concentration of the antibiotic within the gland. Even with this kind of prostatitis, it is important than one stay with the more gentle massage (the more vigorous type can aggravate the condition if calcium deposits are present and therefore should only be performed by a doctor, if at all ).

    With respect to taking antibiotics, just make certain that the course is at least 4 weeks in length (Levequin may be a little shorter). In my experience, anything less will be totally ineffective. Be advised that most urologists are aware of this, but that many general practitioners are not! Be aware that antibiotics have side effects also, particularly when taken over longer periods of time, so do some research and understand what you're getting into first, particularly if you are taking any other medications. While some doctors may prescribe longer courses (2 to 3 months), know when to stop. If you're not having some degree of relief within 30 days, the chances are that 60 more days won't make a difference. The sad truth is that some doctors will keep you on an antibiotic even when it's not helping! This is generally the case when they've run out of options. (Back in the 80's on one occasion I was actually prescribed Septra DS for well over a year! After 12 months I was no better and had developed an allergy to Sulfa and Trimethoprim, the principal ingredients of this compound).

    Dietary modification can also be used in as a part of a multifaceted approach. Spicy foods, alcohol and caffeine can often trigger inflammation (they're also known to spike PSA). Just bear in mind that avoidance may require a life-long commitment! There are certain supplements that can be helpful as well. Some like Saw Palmetto and Zinc you may know, others like Quercetin and Bromelain are less well known but have been shown to provide relief for some prostatitis sufferers. These can be found in isolate form at health food stores or in certain formulations such as Q Urol. (Q Urol is the only supplement of this kind that has actually been studied by a medical university -- John's Hopkins).


    I can tell you that this multifaceted approach is the only thing that has ever worked for me. When I do have symptoms at this point it is only because I've fallen off the wagon with respect to the diet in some way. Thankfully I haven't had the need for antibiotics much in recent years. In so far as maintenance goes I've found the use of the Aneros, dietary modification and supplementation sufficient to keep me symptom free.

    BF Mayfield


    Ranch 11,

    With respect to your query on why your doctor failed to test some fluid that appeared after your DRE, I will tell you that I've only had one doctor (out of 14) do this. I believe their reluctance has to do with the fact that if you're presenting symptoms of prostatitis...they're going to treat you with antibiotics, (as if it was bacterial) anyway. When it comes to a chronic condition, I've been told many times that such fluid rarely shows the presence of bacteria, so they don't bother with it.

    On your doctor's characterization of your prostate as "mushy"...mushy, soggy, boggy...such descriptions are classic of prostatitis.

    On this CAT scan that you're having, is this with regard to your prostatitis? If so, who ordered this and what was the reason given? A CAT scan for prostate troubles for a man of your age is HIGHLY UNUSUAL! CAT scans are used in some instances to track the progress of prostate cancer that has moved out of the capsule and into the lymph nodes, but that's about it. Be aware that a CAT scan involves a large number of x-rays. Given that the area in question is pelvic...this could have serious consequences with respect to your reproductive capacity. For this reason I can't conceive of someone ordering a CAT for prostatitis! If this is the case and this has been suggested to you, I would strongly urge you to get a second opinion before having this test done.


    BF Mayfield
  • Ranch11
    Posts: 6
    I'd think a CAT scan would be a bit much myself, but the last time I went to the urologist (only been twice), He didn't examine me as he did the first time, only sent me away with another set of antibiotics (which I'm still on and aren't having much of an effect) and saying we'd schedule a CAT scan if I didn't respond.

    I'm seeing him again in about a week. If this is still his best course of action, I will indeed seek a second opinion before going through with the scan.

    Thank you very much for all of your input. I know it's still early in the process and I may be worrying a bit too much, but my symptoms aren't showing any signs of going away, and I fear that not only will I never have a normal sex life with this condition, but my overall quality of life is lessened as well, at least on the bad days.
  • Ranch11
    Posts: 6
    Also, I've only been on the antibiotic for about 21 days, at least this most recent one. So I will get my refill and keep it going in case it will indeed help.
  • B MayfieldB Mayfield
    Posts: 2,077
    Ranch 11,

    Forgive me, but I really feel like I have to hammer this one a bit. I've been seeing urologists for this condition for almost 30 years and this has NEVER been suggested to me. And he's considering this after 2 visits! To a 21 year old man! Really weird. Are you sure he wasn't referring to an ultrasound? Again, if he is really considering a C.T. scan....check with another urologist first.

    BF Mayfield
  • Ranch11
    Posts: 6
    I've had an ultrasound before, albeit it was ~5 years ago. I had problems "down there" back then but they went away until recently--no idea if they were the same problems.

    I'm rather sure he said CAT/CT scan. A friend of mine I recently got in touch with already had one done for apparently similar problems, although his symptoms go away when on antibiotics, apparently.

    I'll follow up with more information after the appointment. It's in the next couple weeks...will have to check exactly when, all I know is it's after graduation.
  • rumelrumel
    Posts: 2,265
    Ranch11,

    I am going to jump back in here to say I believe your intuition was correct when you said “…I feel as if I may not be getting the best treatment for my problems.” This is your sub-conscious giving you guidance; I have found it valuable to pay heed to such guidance. ‘B Mayfield’ is also quite correct to suggest that a CAT scan is a very unusual diagnostic tool to be used for prostatitis on a man so young. I agree that a second opinion from an independent doctor is well worth the expense in this case.
  • darwindarwin
    Posts: 1,196
    to me, what is exceptional in this case is the increase in redness/rawness of the urethra after sex.

    i too think you should go to a second urologist.

    darwin
  • darwindarwin
    Posts: 1,196
    a web search on "CT prostatitis" picks up plenty of hits, eg:

    http://kidney.niddk.nih.gov/kudiseases/pubs/imagingut/

    "CT scan. CT scans use a combination of x rays and computer technology to create three-dimensional images. Like MRIs, CT scans require the patient to lie on a table that slides into a tunnel. CT scans can help identify stones in the urinary tract, infections, cysts, tumors, and traumatic injury to the kidneys and ureters."

    i am not saying that means it is or is not appropriate in this case. that is for the doctors to determine.

    darwin
  • B MayfieldB Mayfield
    Posts: 2,077
    Guys,

    Yes, "CT prostatitis" does bring up some hits. But when you look closely at them you find that few of them relate directly to prostatitis. Most discuss the use of CT for diagnosing advanced prostate cancer (as I had alluded to in my earlier post) and various other conditions. You also pick up many hits relating to prostatitis and CT (Chylamydia trachomatis). There was one that did cover the use of the CT with prostatitis. However the suggestion was being made to utilize it in the instance of acute bacterial prostatitis that was unresponsive to treatment. Again, this is hardly a first line diagnostic tool for your garden variety case of prostatitis.

    Given that CT scans expose one to levels of radiation that are many times higher than traditional x-rays (in some instances 100's of times higher), I'm concerned that this is being suggested for a 21 year old man with a sub-acute case of prostatitis.

    No question, the CT scan is a powerful diagnostic tool that has it's place in a diagnostician's arsenal. But as many recent reports have made clear, there is some indication that this technology is being used rather indiscriminately at times. Having faith and trust in your physician is an essential element in receiving good medical care. But one must be an advocate for oneself at all times. This involves asking questions, doing the research and getting second and even third opinions from physicians when necessary.


    BF Mayfield