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Should we teach our boys reaching puberty the benefits of MMO, prostate massage, kuma sutra?

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  • #46
    newguy8762 - thanks very much for a well written and illuminating contribution to this topic.

    I have to admit to not getting the religious ideas, being an atheist myself, but I was touched by the thoughtfulness and broad mindedness of you and your wife towards the burgeoning sexuality of your children. I wish that parents generally were so open and positive.

    I wonder however, if that in the absence of a relationship, the one avenue that could be open to them is fantasy whilst masturbating, and this of course is a key part of arousal building in aneros use? Teaching the difference between fantasy and reality, should make it a largely harmless activity. It is also one you cannot be sure of preventing, since they are hardly likely to tell you. By denying this one area, could you be setting up potential guilt problems, given that you have communicated that this isn't right? More generally, if they decided that something is right for them that would not be right for you, how would you deal with that (for example the occurrence of homosexuality)? I ask this not to criticise, but in the spirit of open enquiry.

    Pommie - thanks for your recounting of a disappointing contact with that doctor. If only this were NOT a regular feature of contact with so many people. I find it interesting that Taoists knew about this 3000 years ago, but then their approach to sexuality was distinctly open, where as we still live in post-Victorian times (as far as so many people are concerned).


    • #47
      In general terms I have a massive problem with the word 'porn'. It seems now to embrace anything sexual. That is any material that generates sexual feelings in the observer from commercial advertising, women's magazines, underwear advertising in newspapers. It includes what my wife and I do. The jokes and misinformation we shared as boys in the woodshed. Many books we sought out as boys that included intimate relational stories. The horrible war fiction that described sexual torture and punishment that were more readily available that x rated movies are now. The heaps of video rape theme games. Even bits in popular crime novels and those crime TV series like CSI Miami etc. that my wife watches. Of course national geographic was the best for breasts and an occasional suggestion of the clitoral grove. Great art works were good too. The bible was good and the Song of Songs a gold mine (I mean no disrespect - the bible is well grounded in reality which we are not.) As the boy said to his friend, " I walked in on mum and dad doing porn". Sexual activities are so universal and include so many varieties that it should not be so commonly defined under one word - porn. Boys more so that girls think about sex most of the time. It generated their energy and purpose for living, loving, productivity and bonding. I think that it is the basic energy of life, and it is intensely spiritual. The problem is it is so powerful we seem to deny its existence which is a dangerous thing to do as it will break out in negative ways. I think we need to be open about this sexual curiosity as a fact of life and not generate condition of dysfunction by sanitizing our daily life.


      • #48
        Linum,Thank you for your kind and respectful words even through we have two entirely different world views. I don't take any of your well thought-out questions as rhetorical criticisms but honest questions.

        Regarding the use of fantasy: Having already stated that we feel obligated to provide our children life guidance, including sexual guidance, based on the teachings of the Bible, I'll respond to the issue of fantasy (and I believe the appropriate extension of porn) by siting the teaching of Jesus on the matter.

        In providing His famous sermon on the mount, He warns the religious leaders of His day not to consider themselves pios or holy just because they hadn't violated the letter of the commandments in outward, actual behavior. He extends the meaning of such outwardly focused commandments as thou shall not murder, honor your father and mother, thou shall not commit adultery to the inner or motivational meaning. In the eyes of God, if you are contemptuously angry with someone, you are just as guilty in your corrupt inner desires than if you killed them. To be sure, the consequences are much different. But, to a holy God, it's a matter of degrees. In God's eyes, adultery can be committed by engaging in sexual acts with another person or doing so in your imagination. In fact, in most instances, I think it can be convincingly argued that there are no actions without first developing thoughts about those actions.

        We see in these teachings and others that God is concerned with our inner and thought life and according to Jesus teachings, our lives will one day be evaluated on the basis of not only our outward actions, but our inner desires and motivations. There is no hiding from God for any person. So, it's on this basis, what is pleasing to God, that we seek to guide them, not to give them a guilt trip. We also must remember that we ourselves shall be evaluated by these standards.

        Pornography is an extension of this concept of inner sexual fantasy and leads us to objectify the other person as a set of genitals or breasts or whatever our bodily object of fixation and as we all know, it's staged and photoshopped and the real experience can't live up to the manufactured. It's also insatiable, creating a hunger but never really satisfying the way a real relationship can. So, we also urge abstinence from porn.

        Regarding the matter of our children actually doing something that we would not approve of (or more properly, that God would not approve of), all I can say is, welcome to reality. None of us live up to the standards God has set for us in Scripture. We have fallen short. But, do we just throw up our hands in resignation and let our inner desires run wild? No, we are to restrain ourselves. All of us exercise restraint in a variety of areas of our lives on a daily basis so it should not seem odd that we do so in the sexual arena as well.

        Our children have chosen to follow sometimes different paths as adults that what God or we have desired for them...having sex prior to marriage...among others. Do we reject them? No.

        We as parents are guilty of many failings and short comings and although I have always been faithful to my wife and she to me, my imaginations have been less pure from time to time. Were you to delve into our pasts you would discover same sex relationships and premarital sex and pornography and drug use and a number of other things we encourage our children to avoid. We have close family members and friends who are gay. We don't agree with these paths others choose, but we love and accept them regardless. This also is based on biblical teaching, for in our view, God loved us before we did anything to endear ourselves to Him. He loves in spite of our weakness and we strive to model this aspect of God's character in our how we treat others.

        I know that not all homes that go by the title Christian are this way. My daughter has a gay friend whose supposedly Christian father rants and calls him a faggot and tells him he's going to burn in hell. Why does this young man hang out at our home? Because our daughter knows there's none of that in our home but rather he'll find unconditional love and acceptance in our home.

        That may be a much longer response than you were wanting but I wanted to respectfully address your thoughtful questions.


        • #49

          What a great set of posts. As an aside I am becoming increasing impressed with the obvious IQ level and breadth of knowledge held by our Aneros community. We obviously come from different walks of life and sexual preferences, yet one of the ties that binds us is our quest for increased sexual satisfaction. The effort you have put into your last two posts shows me you have as much desire for improved sexual experience as I do. Hearing from you about how this weaves into your Christian beliefs was really valuable to me,

          Before I edited this post I went into a detailed discussion of man’s interpretation of the Bible as it applies to homosexuality and pornography. When I read my comments I realized that I had gone far afield and way beyond that most readers want to read about. In the interest of keeping this site directed to the immediate needs of the Aneros world I deleted all of my comments which I included in the next post for those who might be interested.
          So I will leave that alone. But I really do have questions that I think you would personally like to address. So maybe we can wax eloquent in private conversations… unless the Aneros community wants to fire up the arguments and go at it. I will leave that to them. Enough said.


          • #50
            (deleted material from above post. For those not really
            interested in the “religious” component of all of this please SKIP THIS POST and move on the next. However if you are interested in the ongoing discussion about how our Victorian heritage affects us today, read on. As I said to my wife who called me while I was playing gin rummy at the club, I replied.. “ Honey,,, start the argument, I will be home soon”. If you do read this do not blame me for taking this beyond the purposes of this forum, It is your fault also.


            Now I am like you in that I am a heterosexual and a Christian. BUT while I accept Christ, I am having trouble with some people’s version of the Bible. The importance of
            this goes to the very essence of the authenticity of the Bible. (I have read Josh McDowell’s book about the arguments for authenticity.) This whole subject is huge and never ending. I do not propose to settle this here. But this is the root of much of the debates that rage within our society. Basically we are influenced, whether we like it or not, by the "Victorian" standards of the past. I want to resolve some of by doubts by posing to you
            @newguy8762 my dilemma:

            It is said that homosexuals should be stoned to death. Likewise fornicators. Now I do not know anybody who takes this literally by taking action. Obviously, although I am heterosexual, I
            do not buy into this. The root of the question is whether homosexuality is an acquired learning behavior or rather a product of our inherited traits.. i.e. genetic. Now if it is genetic, which I believe, it seems so against all of my Christian principles that God would first create a homosexual then stone him to death I know that I am judging God by my sense of fairness but this seems unlikely. God is perfect. I have trouble believing that God is perfect in creating then asking others to kill his creation simply
            because God made the genetic choice. In my book this cannot be. Now the question becomes whether this is REALLY a dictate from God OR this is a result of HUMANS, "citing" the Bible as authority, and putting this huge burden on homosexuals to bear.

            So one way is to resolve this conflict is by concluding that the Bible is really saying that homosexuality is not genetic. To the point, a very close friend who probably has as much
            knowledge of the Bible as most pastors admits that if one were to conclude that homosexuality is genetic you have to reject the entire Bible. In the Bible Jesus said that all scriptures are accurate. There is no conflict in any of the passages. If the Bible is rejected then where are we to get the teachings of God and Jesus. How do we really know about Jesus, and have the faith necessary for salvation, if the Bible on which we depend is deemed defective? Hence it has to be that homosexuality is a behavior event. Restated.. we are screwed and will not have eternal life if we believe that homosexuality is genetic. We must believe otherwise or we are doomed., So get away any thoughts that suggest the genetic component, “Don’t confuse me with the facts.. this is my story and I am sticking with it”.

            As an aside there are similar arguments about the age of the earth. The young earthers buy into the inherent genealogy of the progression of our race from Adam and Eve. That’s their story and they are also sticking with that.

            What’s point? I think that there is a good chance that there is nothing wrong with the Bible. The problem is with the humans who interpret the Bible. Oh we are not to “interpret” the Bible, we must take it literally. But when I have confronted them with their own interpretation while claiming to be literal, they revert to the obvious that all of this in the final analysis is one of faith. I absolutely agree.

            So how can my ramblings have any relevance to my original comment? For me I am going to let my instincts tell me what is right. Obviously I am constrained by society. So as a practical matter I should not parade around flaunting new found success with multiple orgasms. It is up to those men to find their own secrets. I have discovered mine by working at it. I deserve my success.
            Similar to religion I had to believe that all of this works. Now when it comes to my kids I have concluded that EVERYTHING that I believe will enhance their sex life should be taught to them. I do not buy into the idea that they will discover this on their own. Bull s**t. I am 76, with extreme focus on my sexual pleasure, and I am just NOW discovering my new found pleasures. Where the hell was everybody when I was growing up? The truth is that my parents probably had no knowledge of this and my father died before he would have had the chance to educate me assuming he had the knowledge.

            Bottom line: Tell them early about Kuma Sutra, MMO, prostate massage, encourage masturbation, even penile enlargement during puberty (yikes.. did I say that?.. Yes).

            SO tell your kids everything and try to help navigate through the minefields raised in the prior post. Let her rip. At least you know your kids at least had the chance and options to explore.


            I know I just covered a lot of controversial subjects. You seem to be one of the more enlighten Christians I have read. If you want to take the time I am interested in your reaction. I think you know what you are talking about. It is my wisdom that I question. Let me have

            To the others… I warned you. I told you to skip this post! This might really stir up the masses (of which I am a member). I just put my helmet on… go for it.

            LAST WORD… to those that doubt the Aneros experience… THIS STUFF REALLY WORKS. I have been on a 10 day intensive immersion into MMO. When I started 10 days I had not experienced anything that I would call an orgasm,, whether Mini, Dry or Super. Today, 10 days later, I am lit up like a Christmas tree. Every night I get better. I am at the point where I can have the ultimate orgasmic spasm of cumming that does not die down. It is like I have a permanent orgasm. It is
            the most intense and pleasurable experience of my life, In the last t 10 days I have experienced more
            orgasms that in all of my last 65 years. DO NOT GIVE UP. I was a doubter until this week.


            • #51
              I write this with great respect to the above writers.
              The problem as I see it is we misunderstand what Jesus is saying, and we take it out of context because we do not fully understand the restrictions of his culture. Regarding adultery for example he is saying don't punish the woman caught in physical adultery when you are all guilty of having sex with her in your head ( or worse). She is the object not the perpetrator. He is telling a hung up culture to come down to earth and care for each other with understanding. Regarding the girl that he heals he says immediately after "give her something to eat" this strongly suggests she was actually feinting through hunger, which immediately suggests she had been excluded from the family table for sometime because she was "unclean" , that is she had a period. What is worse to heal Jesus actually touched an unclean female! I am not saying I am correct but these examples seem obvious. Jesus is in fact much more of a man of the world than we think. He actually offers far more freedom than we want to accept. So much so that the culture he lived in had to get rid of him. (There are cultures like this even today)
              Why all this: because there are other very valid rather liberating ways of reading his teaching.


              • #52
                thick75,I'm more than happy to carry on a private PM with you. The rest of the guys will probably quickly tire of our esoteric theological ramblings. I'll PM you and we can take it from there.


                • #53
                  The topic of discussion is
                  Should we teach our boys reaching puberty the benefits of MMO, prostate massage, kuma sutra?

                  There is no mention of religion in this original post

                  IMHO religion is the cause of all wars (arguments).
                  And no! I will not argue with you about it! That is what I believe in.
                  I for one am not interested in religious ideas of any kind!
                  I am sick of people with their religious belief's reciting them in any way to me and do not want it on this forum. ( It is not what the forum is about).

                  As a fellow aneros user I would ask you all to keep your religious thoughts to yourselves and save them for your god faring websites.
                  I do not begrudge you having your believes on what ever religion you may believe in but keep it out of this forum please.

                  Religion and politics are bad topics for forums IMHO.

                  I was watching this post intensely from the start but now have lost all interest now that religion is the topic.
                  Please be thoughtful to all users and stop the religious talk, and get back to the topic of discussion.
                  Start your own thread with religious views as the topic so others of us can ignore it.


                  • #54
                    Braveneworld - I can't help but sympathise with what you say, however I do think that religion was relevant to this discussion at one point, if only because GUILT, whether religiously inspired and/or cultural, was a possible block to an openness and honesty in communicating the "facts of life", which in this case also includes "the benefits of MMO, prostate massage, and karma sutra?

                    I was relieved that at least one religious person here (newguy8762) could deal with human sexual diversity in such a positive way, since without that we are all doomed to lead pale shadows of our potential lives.

                    Having said that, I too get lost in religious "naval gazing" and often feel that life could be so much simpler. I respect newguy8762's and other's views, even though I don't agree with the religious origins of those views, and uphold his right to express them. However, he has felt that this was getting far off track, as we both do, and his offer to continue communication on this privately, also shows him to be sensitive and empathetic to the feelings of others. I'd like to thank him very much for his valuable and thoughtful contributions.

                    I am happy to end it there, but I think that since aneros use and multi-orgasmic practices do sometimes generate a sense of spirituality, I would not be prepared to say no religion - ever. After all, Taoism is another form of religion, and its relevance to multi-orgasmic practices is enormous.

                    Just as sexuality permeates everyone's lives, so too does spirituality at some point, and since religion still forms a large part of most people's lives (taken the world over), its implications will be entwined through everything else, and can never be entirely separated.

                    Thanks too, must go to all the other contributors to this topic. I am sure there is still much more than can be said.



                    • #55
                      Point well taken. The problem with the original question is that the Kama Sutra is a Hindu text. This has left the thread open to "religious input". That of course leads the thread back to influences on culture that create all the guilt and hangups that plague enjoying our body.
                      It would be good if we could live in such a way that without pressure when knowledge was needed knowledge could be given without manipulation, grooming, and guilt, in a joyful, happy and humerous way. Sadly I do not see this happening any time soon anywhere.
                      "Half my life has been accumulating guilt the other half getting free from it. What a waste of time!"


                      • #56
                        Ok while I agree with both @isvara and @Linum points @newguy8762 first thread was great, althought he mentioned his religion and points of view he did not quote passages until later posts.I thought his first post was very informative and relivent but then as the posts go on, the preaching starts to com out.
                        Like I said I dont mind his faith just the preaching of it.
                        I am not looking for a argument and I will not be following this discussion any longer.
                        I am sure it will be off putting to other as well but I do not speak for them.

                        Maybe I should have said nothing and just not continued reading the posts.

                        I have been on this forum for about 8 months and although people mention religion here and there It has been free of preaching the words of their god.
                        The karma Sutra although written by Hidu,s is all about bettering your sex so is not really in the same realm as Christianity. I no nothing about Taoism so will not comment.

                        While I have shot my mouth off about it and will admit that as the word of god is mentioned more and more through the posts I stopped reading and just looked for key words and sentences.

                        Maybe I voiced my opinion about religion when it was not really needed or maybe it was need ed.
                        I mean no offence to anyone I just really dont want religion as part of my aneros experience.
                        some will agree and others wont.

                        Peace to all my aneros freinds.


                        • #57
                          Thick75, I sent a lengthy PM to you yesterday but I can't see it in my account settings anywhere. Did you receive it?

                          @braveneworld or any others offended by what I've written: not my intention to preach. Just sharing my views to try to dispel any misconceptions, in particular about Christianity/sexuality and how this particular view relates to the subject. I apologize for bringing too much of that into a forum where it's unwelcome.

                          I do sometimes feel in these debates over values and "truth" that the call for tolerance becomes a one way street. But, ill respect everyone's wishes. Have a nice day!


                          • #58
                            There are several Christian guys on this website and the ones I have gotten to know agree totally with newguy8762's statements relative to aneros use, a relationship with Jesus, and helping our sons make it thru puberty and early adulthood.
                            One Christian friend gives thanks to God during his sessions for the exquisitely pleasurable feelings generated by the rewiring. After all, we believe that God made these male bodies and he endowed them with the potential to give men this kind of pleasure. So sorry that Taoism and not Christians advance the principles for the rewiring. But even inspite of eastern influence, we who have a relationship with Jesus (as newguy obviously does, and as Isvara alludes to) can give honor to Him sans lust, althought restraining lust is a constant battle for us as Christian men. In the end, we dont answer to religion. A relationship with Jesus is the key to the real Christian life, even in aneros use. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you is another great Christian principle grounded in respect and forbearance.


                            • #59
                              Back on track i hope:
                              I think we need to differentiate between lust and healthy curiosity. Healthy curiosity leads to depth of knowledge and understanding, it give rise to what works and what doesn't, sexually it enables males to understand the amazing yet foreign female body. It allows males to appreciate and understand a little of the incredible complexity and importance of female genitalia. It allows males to overcome the fear of difference and avoidance of looking at female labia. Hopefully it may discourage female genital mutilation. If in the up bringing of boys we can satisfy their healthy curiosity then they may may not need to compensate with lust. Until we can do this MMO and benefits of prostate massage may best be left until a little later. I think adolescence need to enjoy the amazing ejaculatory release without guilt as the first step.
                              I think there may be better visual media than the Kama Sutra. I personally have not found the KS helpful.

                              Edit addition
                              A foot note. I am not sure we would have the same response if we we taking about adolescent girls and speaking about the benefits of orgasms, clitoral stimulation, discovering and massaging the " she spot", etc, I wont go further. I think "virtue of virginity" would need a rethink. I am just trying to get the theme into perspective.


                              • #60
                                "Lust" is a very human condition. Its definition varies greatly, and as such it is not always a useful word to use in the context of this discussion, since it means different things to different people. It can have negative connotations, such as when sex happens that perhaps shouldn't have, but it can have positive connotations too, as in when it is channelled into a healthy sexual relationship and enhances the experience for both partners. In the end, lust isn't the issue, it is what one does with it that matters.

                                I agree with isvara, that it can have a role in promoting healthy curiosity, and who here doesn't have that? Without a modicum of lust, we would lead rather solitary existences, devoid of touch and a lot of intimacy, and a lot of what people secretly find most satisfying about their lives.

                                When it comes to the "education" of the young, there has to be a realisation here that young people have sexual needs too. As I have said before, it is better to give them some information that could help them make better decisions in life, than to leave them floundering around, perhaps also floundering in the guilt generated by years of ignorance or misinformation. As isvara also said - "Half my life has been accumulating guilt the other half getting free from it. What a waste of time!"

                                Be careful though, not to succumb to prescribing what information you think is helpful, based solely on your own preferences and likes. The fact that something works for you, doesn't mean it will work for others. My own contemplation of female labia (thanks for that image isvara - lol) is somewhat limited, and as a young man, I would have resented the assumption that this was what I would like too. Behind it is a tacit indication that this is what is considered NORMAL. Yet in sex, what one needs is to not be saddled with random definitions of what constitutes normal, since GUILT will be the inevitable result. Aneros use, shows us dramatically that there is little that can be classified as NORMAL. Our journeys are unique and are our own. Now that we have learnt once more, that variety is the spice of life, lets not forget that each person (even a young person) is on their own journey through life, and there is no standard model of how this will turn out, despite the pushing and cajoling of others. To go against one's innate feelings here, is to lead a life in the shadows of existence.

                                Please remember too, that people are quite capable of lying about, and then perpetuating the myth that there is something called NORMAL. They want to fit in, they definitely don't want to stick out as odd, perverse, or abnormal. It takes a lot of contemplation and coming to terms with who you REALLY are, in order to overcome these often unwritten strictures. As isvara said (and it is worth repeating) - What a waste of time!"