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  • #31
    Hello Nat and Forum Members,

    We appreciate all of your thoughts. Nat, you've made a ton of different points throughout this thread and we'll try to hit most of them.

    Our guarantee policy is the only one of its kind in the industry that we are aware of. As Darwin writes, it really is unheard of.

    There is no secondary market for our products. If you return your MGX for a refund we cannot turn around and sell it to another someone else for 90% of it's value like you can with golf clubs. We can't restock it and sell it again. Returned items come back to us and go straight into the garbage can but not before we get the returner's comments and suggestions that we can use to make future improvements. The items are a loss to us, but the feedback we get is invaluable. The Helix, Maximus, Eupho and Progasm were all born out of feedback from our customers.

    Consider how we can have any sort of guarantee policy at all. The answer is that we believe in our products. We believe they are the best in the world, the best in a market which we created. We think our customers believe in our products. The feedback we get backs up this sentiment. Our incidence of returns is extremely low. The positive feedback we get from our customers greatly outnumbers the negative.

    We understand that prostate massage is not "mainstream" and therefore is something new that most men are jumping into. The 90-day guarantee policy hopefully provides a sense of security for our customers because they are trying something very new and different, but we can only offer this policy because of the ongoing success our customers have.
    While we strive for a 100% success rate for every customer and every product, for reasons anatomical, physical, psychological or a combination thereof, for some men it just doesn't happen. For those that have tried, tried, tried and have gotten nowhere, the guarantee policy provides what we consider to be a solid amount of time to make some progress and is a good point for one to come to a decision whether he wants to continue on the journey or stop.

    Hopefully, during the 90 days, a new user will experience great sensations right off the bat, gradually make progress, or feel sparks and changes that represent something good to come that encourage him to continue the journey. At a minimum, if used as plug-and-play, the Aneros undoubtably enhances a traditional penile orgasm. If after this period nothing happens, we happily accept the product for a refund according to our policy if that is what the customer wishes to do.

    We really don't completely grasp the whole "strung along" point you have been trying to make it. In your time here on the forum you have received nothing but honest encouragement from the other forum members. If the result of all this help the community has provided you is for you to feel "strung along" we really don't know what to tell you.

    You say you have spent hundreds of dollars on our products. This would suggest that you have 3-4 models which is a large number. I don't think anyone on the forum would suggest for you to go out and buy a bunch of models to find one that works for you. No one at the company would suggest for you to go out and buy a bunch of models either. We question why would you spend hundreds of dollars when you felt like you weren't getting support from the company and at the same time felt like you were strung along by the community.

    You made a great choice in the Helix as your first model and really this is the only model you need. Based on skimming some of your past posts we do see that you made some progress which is a great sign. You may just be in for a longer journey than you expected or had hoped like Love Is.

    The reason why we have spent time and effort to setup the forum, wiki, blogs, chat, Aneros Me, (failed) Bee-Line is that we recognize the power of *this* very special community. We want to create as many useful ways as possible for everyone here to share their experiences. What better way to hear and learn about our products than from other users? Certainly hearing about other users' experiences, positive or negative, is preferable to any "corporate speak" coming from us, right?

    Now if you felt that you did not get enough or the right support from our company at any point in time, this is an entirely different issue and needs to be addressed by our team. Customer service is extremely important to us. Please forward any emails that you felt did receive not satisfactory responses to websupport@aneros.com. We'll go back and try to pull any communications between us and you to see if we had a lapse in our customer support. So again, if we failed to address your "individual instance" of failure, we'd love the opportunity to try to help. Please note we are available via phone as well. Frankly, the advice and encouragement you get here is outstanding and would be on par with what we could provide you, so don't overlook that.

    As far as our marketing goes, there is always room for improvement. We actually have over the years toned down the hype in our language significantly. We feel on a whole, it is fairly balanced. For example, this is the text from our "Super-O" page in the Learning Center:

    "Many men can achieve the “Super-O” on the first use of the Aneros. For others, it will take patience, relaxation, and practice — months, sometimes even more than a year. This is what we call “the path to the Super-O.” During this time the man will become more in tune with his body and the Aneros. And the problem for some is that the more the man concentrates and wants to force the “Super-O” to happen, it becomes even more elusive. For many men totally giving in to themselves and the sensations they are feeling, giving up the desire to control their sensations allows them to break through."

    We do want people who visit the site to be excited about our products. We choose to do this via the customer testimonials and not from juiced up marketing language.

    As far as the possible tens of thousands of users who have had no success at all, you are right, they could be out there, but we doubt it. Again, we have a very low rate of return, and in the age of the internet, if you feel like you are getting ripped off, it is incredibly easy to make your feelings known publicly for everyone to see, and to do so completely anonymously. If our products were garbage, then you would see tons of people here posting about their negative experiences. Do a Google search and you'll find generally the same thing on independent forums. Search on Aneros reviews and positive ones greatly outweigh the negatives, in our opinion, for good reason.

    Some more points:

    1. Product testers - we have a core group of testers and they tend to be experienced. We also have had novice testers as well and plan to use novices in the future. We tend to lean on the more experienced testers because they are able to articulate about the nuances of the product and describe in great detail the most minute sensations they feel which can lead to tweaks to our designs. We cannot get this same kind of feedback from novice users.

    2. Creating products for experienced users - your thought process is foreign to us here. All of our community tools were created to help everyone achieve success with our products. Don't mistake us not jumping in on every thread on the forum for lack of compassion. This forum and the wiki are by the community, for the community. Again for your specific case, we need to take a look at what you perceived to be a lack of support and see how we can help.

    We have products that are great for beginners - the SGX, MGX and Helix have long track records for being excellent starter models, especially the Helix and MGX (hence they are our bestsellers). Our most recent products have been on the advanced side because they've filled holes in our product line up. We don't recommend the Vice for beginners because the vibrations will mask the subtle sensations you should feel during the rewiring process. The Tempo came largely due to the enthusiasm of those here on the forum who love the Peridise but wanted a more weighted feel. So while we will never rule out creating more "beginner" products we feel like the Helix and MGX do a great job of covering this customer segment.

    3. Helixer - you are obviously not up to speed with his situation. We have communicated *extensively* with him about why the way he crafts his opinions more than his opinions themselves turn off the other members. Extensively. Helixer is actually one of our biggest fans but ultimately, could not express himself in a way that adhered to the forum guidelines. He would have been banned from many other forums long before he was banned here.

    So Nat, we hope this post addresses some of your concerns. We doubt you will agree with all of it, but at least you know where we are coming from. While we design and hope for 100% success for all our customers, we aren't selling DVDs or clock radios. Our products are precisely anatomically designed but it is the combination of slight variations - anatomical, physical state, mental state - which don't allow us to tell you exactly how to have a breakthrough. If we knew all the mysteries of rewiring and the Super-O, we'd publish the definitive step-by-step guide to reaching it. Unfortunately, we don't know all the mysteries.

    However, we do feel like we have provided a framework with our community tools that provide you and every other user the most honest and authentic information possible to be successful with the Aneros. In your specific case, because you did experience sensations, we still have hope that a breakthrough is in your future.

    thanks,
    Aneros Support

    Comment


    • #32
      Nat, one thing - we wish we had read your Final Plea thread earlier, just read it now. Around this time or actually before you plunked down more money for the Eupho, Progasm and Peridise would have been a good time for you to communicate directly with us. Note there have been times in the past and there likely will be in the future when we are not actively reading what is going on here. Please fwd your past email communications with us to websupport@aneros.com.

      Comment


      • #33
        I first want to thank support for responding to this thread. In order to better address the post, I am going to use quotes.

        Our incidence of returns is extremely low. The positive feedback we get from our customers greatly outnumbers the negative.
        I think the point I was trying to get at was the dedication factor between satisfied and unsatisfied customers. I myself am a very vocal individual. Therefore, if I really like a product, I am going to tell people. If I really dislike a product, I will do the same. However, in reality most people arent that way. To me atleast, it seems very logical that a company is going to hear more positives than negatives, because those that are enthusiastic about the product are the ones most willing to discuss it. Where as those that are frustrated dont want to participate and stress themselves out further. In the case of Aneros, it could very well be a money situation such as mine, where they are frustrated they wasted so much money. In other cases it could be as other members have mentioned before, being that when you see thread after thread of people having major milestone success, you push even harder.

        I guess my question would than be, since the return rate is low, how many of those potential returns may not happen because : A) the user bought the item in a store and cannot return it, or B) other members told them the process takes longer than 90 days and now no longer have a warranty? Obviously no one can answer that, but this is the type of market research that companies need to do with their products if they are part of such a unique niche market like Aneros is.

        For those that have tried, tried, tried and have gotten nowhere, the guarantee policy provides what we consider to be a solid amount of time to make some progress and is a good point for one to come to a decision whether he wants to continue on the journey or stop.
        As someone who is in development for a social media business, the way that consumers buy products these days is not traditional. We are more likely to be loyal to a product if those around us are loyal to a product. Therefore, think about how these forums work. We have a community here of successful users and enthusiasts for the Aneros product. I have seen many times before, even with myself, situations where members have said "Help, I hit a roadblock". In response, more successful users will say "Give it time, put the model away for a few weeks and come back to it". If this is the case (and from my personal knowledge of the forums, decent advice to members), how is the struggling user supposed to accurately make the decision to stop or not? I know if I had posted a thread about not having success a week after getting the product and received a bunch of responses about how I should quit and one response saying I shouldnt, chances are I would be swayed to quit. This forum acts the opposite way. Because we have so many members here with high levels of success, they are going to encourage struggling users to continue. Keeping in mind how social product buying and maintaining is these days, how much can Aneros as a product line further support struggling users, when in fact a warranty is no longer in place? As a company, if you havent thought of this before, maybe it is a good question to ask if you are looking to further develop the website, chat, or forums.

        We really don't completely grasp the whole "strung along" point you have been trying to make
        The thread title was created by whomever moved the post, not me. In other words, I dont feel as though I have been strung along as much as I feel I have been misinformed. I feel that for every great thing that can be said about any product, there is an opposite side. Aside from members encouraging other members to continue on their journey, no one ever gets the chance to express the other side. I know in the past when I have seen it, other more experienced members come out of the wood work only to take jabs at the member, claiming they are either trying to start trouble, or that the product isnt working because of them and not the product. In a lot of cases, because Aneros is partly a psychological thing, that might be true. However, I shake my head at the concept that a piece of plastic that someone created is always right, but a living, breathing, human being is always wrong. I know that sounds a bit too dramatic, but some members go to that extreme. I hate to pick on anyone, but look at the responses of imp and Bishop. One feels this discussion is only here to complain, while the other wants the thread locked because he feels personally that the thread is going nowhere. Some people cant handle different perspectives, making those that want to give those perspectives afraid to speak out, in the end making the community all one sided. Again, this is a different effect of social consumerism, as I talked about earlier in this post. If companies are going to go the social route (as they should), they need to realize this and allow debates such as this one to occur.

        We question why would you spend hundreds of dollars when you felt like you weren't getting support from the company and at the same time felt like you were strung along by the community.
        My reasons for using Aneros to begin with are different than those of most members. I did not buy it for health, nor did I buy it is a sex toy. I really dont want to discuss it, because it is a very personal issue. Why I stuck around had to do with a few things. When using a new product that isnt mainstream, there is always a bit of doubt in your mind as to if you are using the product correctly. So in my journey of about 3 years, I wanted to make sure that I exhausted my resources. I sat in member chats going through different ways I could approach a session, I took breaks, consulted the wiki, did Rumels audio recording sessions, and yes.. even tried different models. Now, whether you believe me or not, members did tell me that some models work for some people and not others. I was also told that the movement or placement of one model over another effects everyones body different, meaning a member might always hit a brick wall if they plug away at one model. In the case of the Peridise, I was told that it is a good model for struggling users because you can use it without being in a traditional session, getting your body used to the comfort levels, movements, and sensations. Now, exactly what members told me this and when are sketchy, seeing as most of my participation in the community happened in chats.

        Customer service is extremely important to us. Please forward any emails that you felt did receive not satisfactory responses to websupport@aneros.com. We'll go back and try to pull any communications between us and you to see if we had a lapse in our customer support.
        With all due respect, you honesty feel that I would have saved sent e mails from a bit over a year ago?

        So again, if we failed to address your "individual instance" of failure, we'd love the opportunity to try to help.
        I am interested to know how you plan to help, seeing as though I have tried different models, did Rumels audio sessions, took on a lot of the advice of members, and the wiki. What else havent we touched on? If so I would gladly work with you on this. Again, I am not saying all this to start trouble. I do want to support the product and get it to work. I just feel the money has been a waste.

        2. Creating products for experienced users - your thought process is foreign to us here.
        You misunderstood my point. Let me give an example. To my knowledge (because I dont own the vice) the vice is basically a Progasm, but with vibration. All this time and energy was put into creating and promoting this model, yet there are so many users out there having trouble getting the normal Progasm to create success. Sure, there is a point to where you need to move on and introduce new products, but you also need to communicate with those having trouble with existing products with just as much enthusiasm as you do with new products. This is why product labs for new concepts like Aneros have to be huge. I would question, while you have people sitting in the lab creating new models, do you have people sitting in the lab with old product trying to figure out what might be causing a lack of success for some users? The same goes for the Peridise. You guys are focused on the creation of a steel one, when a lot of use cant begin to get consistent with the original.

        I do have comments on your product tester system, but I think I will leave that for e mail communication.

        Thank again.

        Comment


        • #34
          Nat,

          I've been following this thread with interest since it covers a wide range of user satisfaction issues and related marketing tactics. At this point, I'm speculating that you would be less unhappy if in your next Aneros session you had a breakthrough, however you choose to define that.

          But now I'm curious. What would it take to make you a "happy camper?" All your money refunded? Revised wording on the product packaging to inform potential buyers that some users may never achieve satisfactory results? An apology from Aneros management? An apology from certain Forum members? All of the above?

          Sincerely,

          Dave

          Comment


          • #35
            Tens,

            As you said, short of Nat making a total breakthrough I suspect that there is nothing that will satisfy him at this point. But since he is no longer using or "supporting" the product it's unlikely to happen. Just an observation, but every time that someone answers one of his concerns he either ignores it or states that it isn't good enough. Support has already explained to him that if a large population of dissatisfied users existed they would be conspicuously all over the internet. This is not the case. My impression of what he is saying now is, so long as there is one dissatisfied user HIH has an obligation to completely change their business model. I wish him all the luck in the world with his own business enterprise following a notion like that.

            From my perspective, as a business owner, there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with HIH/Aneros business model, I would not change a thing!

            All of that said, I feel that this thread should remain open. Nat has not been abusive and has as much right as anyone else to make his feelings known. However, he doesn't have more right either. I think it is important that we don't all exaggerate the significance of one dissenting opinion here. He's all but said that his mind is made up, I don't really think that anybody is going to say anything that will impact his thinking. Perhaps Abraham Lincoln said it best when he remarked that you can please some of the people some of the time, all of the people some of the time, some of the people all of the time, but you can never please all of the people all of the time. Or to put it more tersely, there's no satisfying some people! My sense is that everyone's energy would be better spent trying to help those who are open to assistance.

            I will leave it at that and leave to others to decide if they want to perpetuate this debate. I'm off to my Progasm, tootles!

            All the best to you Nat


            Mark

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by MarkM
              All the best to you Nat
              Originally posted by rook
              Blessings to you Nat.
              Originally posted by artform
              I wish you well in your business Nat and however you choose to follow your MMO interest. All the best!
              Originally posted by Pommie
              Good Luck!
              Originally posted by Pareidolia
              Cheers...
              Originally posted by imp
              Bon Voyage et Bon Chance in your future endeavors.
              We may not agree with your opinions but we do hope you find your Nirvana somewhere else, if not here,
              Shalom.

              Comment


              • #37
                I was going to respond, but I will just ask one thing :

                He's all but said that his mind is made up, I don't really think that anybody is going to say anything that will impact his thinking.
                Can you please quote where I specifically said that my mind was made up? If you read my last post you would notice that I told support that I am wiling to work with them, but was unsure if there was anything left to try.

                In all honesty, if you dont like my perspective, say so. However, there is no need to put words into anyones mouths. If the thread frustrates you so much that you cannot offer a response that isnt putting judgment on a member, simply move onto the next thread. No one here is trying to start trouble.

                Dave, to address you, I really dont think I can answer your question. The only thing I can say is that I have given a lot of loyalty, time, and money to Aneros. In return I want something a bit more than a few random sensations over 3 years time. The give and take ratio doesnt seem to even come close for even the money I have spent.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Nat,

                  You were here for months before I started my journey and some of your posts along with the resulting dialog were a part of my early education about Aneros toys.

                  Your early 'tingles,' apparent growth of energy in your chest (heart chakra ?), and 'twinkling lights' on the ceiling when you opened your eyes were impressive happenings that confirmed your early progress. When you reported the improvement of your married sex life and attributed that to your Aneros sessions I was impressed.

                  Your 'final plea' thread was somewhat puzzling to me. Your posts in this thread, when contrasted with your early enthusiasm for the Aneros tend to indicate another "finality."

                  This morning i did an 'user name' search and reviewed your early threads. I find it hard to believe that in your early Aneros use, you were not a rather satisfied customer.

                  If you are really amenable to this practice it might be well to return, perhaps not to 'square one' but to your roots in 2008.

                  jm2cw ... rook

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    My reasons for using Aneros to begin with are different than those of most members. I did not buy it for health, nor did I buy it is a sex toy. I really dont want to discuss it, because it is a very personal issue.
                    Errr huh? Well then why are you upset about it 'not working as a sex toy then if that's not why you bought it?

                    Like others have pointed out the fact that Aneros has any kind of money back guarantee is pretty much amazing. Seriously I just don't get why you're so damn pissed about the money aspect of all this. There's people starving to death all over the world and you're pissed because you're out a few hundred $$ that was spent over the course of a few years. Would you be as pissed off if they didn't have a money back guarantee in the first place? Even without a money back guarantee I wouldn't hesitate to spend a few hundred $$ for a chance to experience MMO's even if I did know that there was a chance that the product wouldn't work for me. That's an easy gamble to take right there. I actually read the forum for awhile before taking the plunge. By doing that I learned before I even bought it that some users have difficulties achieving success with the product.

                    Even if you're not getting the results you'd had hoped for, the Aneros is great for your prostate and butt anyways. I haven't used the aneros for awhile now and I can fully feel the difference. It's like I stopped going to the gym. Ejaculations aren't as intense as when I was using the Aneros and I don't have that amazing control like I did while having sex like then.




                    You misunderstood my point. Let me give an example. To my knowledge (because I dont own the vice) the vice is basically a Progasm, but with vibration. All this time and energy was put into creating and promoting this model, yet there are so many users out there having trouble getting the normal Progasm to create success.
                    Yea and there are plenty of users having great success with the Progasm. I'm not sure what you're asking of the Aneros team here? To study why the Progasm isn't working for some and then change the design of it? Which wouldn't make any sense since it works great for others.

                    I know you don't want to hear this but again I feel the problem lies within the user, not the product. I've had the most amazing sessions ever with my aneros.... And I've had sessions where pretty much nothing happens. So when I have sessions where I'm getting no where is it the Aneros fault? No. It's me. It's my body not being in the right state or what not to have MMO's.


                    I'm not sure anybody here or support can help you anymore than they already have. I feel even if you got your money back you still wouldn't be satisfied. Think it's more just frustration that you haven't had the success that you'd like. You've experienced good sessions obviously because you said so in your old posts. So you know there's something there. The energy is within you. This negativity you're feeling though isn't the route to take to unlock it.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Nat,

                      You said in Post #33 above:

                      "You misunderstood my point. Let me give an example. To my knowledge (because I dont own the vice) the vice is basically a Progasm, but with vibration. All this time and energy was put into creating and promoting this model, yet there are so many users out there having trouble getting the normal Progasm to create success."



                      If you don't own a "Vice", it's my guess that you have never handled or used one. If you had, you would know that the "Vice" is a very different animal from the Progasm. I have little doubt that there are now users of both who have found that the Vice works where the Progasm didn't. I do own both and I have some reservations on both (for quite different reasons). I just happen to find that other models work better for me, but even that depends on my mood on the night.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Billy, with all due respect, we all come from different financial situations. With that said, it is none of any ones business to tell someone that just because spending a few hundred dollars on a product isnt important to you, doesnt mean its the same for everyone else. One thing is for sure, regardless of if it was $5 or $500, the product still doesnt work for everyone. Warranty or not, that is still a fact. So a company is putting out a product while throwing their hands in the air saying "it may work, it may not".

                        I never said that they should redesign. What I was saying is that they still need to work out why it doesnt work for a lot of people.

                        Also, just because I felt a handful of sensation in over 3 years times, does not mean I had good sessions.

                        I still also love how people feel they cannot continue a conversation, because they disagree with the point of views. Just because you assume something to be so, doesnt mean it actually is.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Nat
                          Billy, with all due respect, we all come from different financial situations. With that said, it is none of any ones business to tell someone that just because spending a few hundred dollars on a product isnt important to you, doesnt mean its the same for everyone else. One thing is for sure, regardless of if it was $5 or $500, the product still doesnt work for everyone. Warranty or not, that is still a fact. So a company is putting out a product while throwing their hands in the air saying "it may work, it may not".

                          I never said that they should redesign. What I was saying is that they still need to work out why it doesnt work for a lot of people.

                          Also, just because I felt a handful of sensation in over 3 years times, does not mean I had good sessions.

                          I still also love how people feel they cannot continue a conversation, because they disagree with the point of views. Just because you assume something to be so, doesnt mean it actually is.

                          I would agree, I think we should leave well enough alone about someone's abilities to pay for things. My attitude is that the cost of the Aneros isn't inexpensive but is well in the ball park of a lot of sexual devices that are out there. The difference with the Aneros is that it is one of the few sexual devices that truly works and this is where I take exception with what you're saying. You've written " What I was saying is that they still need to work out why it doesnt work for a lot of people." This is a false premise, you've offered absolutely nothing to support this. The glass half full perspective is that it works for a lot of people. A more accurate statement might be that some people have trouble finding success with it. Given the large amount of people that have found success with the device there is no need for the manufacturer to change the product itself or how they market it. To their credit they have provided a Forum for users of the product to come together and help one another. There is no question that this resource has helped many more men find success with the device. As others have said, like any product that requires a certain skill level, there will be some folks that don't get it. Fortunately that number has been fairly few with the Aneros. As Support had mentioned, if a widespread dissatisfaction existed with this product, there would be no keeping it a secret. It would be all over the internet.

                          With respect to those who chose not to continue a conversation with you, perhaps it is because there is nothing more to say to someone whose mind seems to be made up . I looked at some of your past posts as well prior to my comments here about sensations that you experienced and you didn't always have such a negative characterization of them. Your statement about being somehow "thrown into a hole" is illustrative too of a closed mind. That kind of hyperbole doesn't do anyone here (or the manufacturer) justice. Seriously, you will never find a more helpful group of people than here in this Forum. Lastly, the fact that you would side with a notorious character in this forum without even checking into his background, simply because he was in conflict with the general membership, doesn't speak much for your sense of openness either. That person was absolutely enamored with the product! As a matter of fact he stated on many occasions that he thought it was one of the greatest accomplishments of mankind (I'm not exaggerating).



                          Paul

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Nat;

                            I'm happy to continue a friendly conversation with you. I agree with your point that the manufacturer should be more up-front with the fact that an unknown percentage of men who attempt to find satisfaction with an Aneros device will fail. The exact way to present that information in a reasonable manner that doesn't negatively impact sales and at the same time warns the potential buyer is something I can't specify. I don't think the package needs a scary blurb like the one on a pack of cigarettes. Nor would a weaselly warning like the fine print accompanying a prescription medication be appropriate. Perhaps something along these lines:

                            "Product performance varies across a wide spectrum, depending on many factors. Some men will achieve first-time success. Others will never achieve a satisfactory result. Please visit our website for usage and warranty information."

                            Would that do it for you?

                            Sincerely,

                            Dave

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              IMO helixer was an interesting guy although a bit enamored with his own intellect and opinions ...

                              but maybe we all are - at least in a measure

                              ... he was tiresome but i may also be so

                              i personally took offense at his preaching a very negative attitude toward women ...

                              my impression is that a majority here are more heterosexual than homosexual

                              ... yet i don't pick up - and hope i don't betray - too much homophobia

                              all i ask is that i be given me a warning before i get thrown off

                              - rip

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                I am looking at this issue as an individual buyer, because I believe that since we are not working with accurate stats here, no one can truly say what percentage of users gain success or not. However, I think you would be really naive to think that I am one of only a few people that have no success. More importantly, I dont like the idea of me giving a few hundred dollars to a company, only for me not to get a product that doesnt work and that I am the problem. Again.. I am waiting for an answer, where is the line drawn? Or is it that Aneros is the god of all sex toys and can never be questioned?

                                Ask yourself if you were me, what positive would have been gained from this? I spent a few hundred dollars in order to get pieces of plastic that have done little to nothing for me, which I cant send back or resell. All in all spending hours of time wasted in sessions and trying to talk with other users about ways to get the product to work (when those ways should be given to you with the model)/ All in the end to be told that I am the bad guy, because I was dumb enough to support a company product for over 3 years, when I shouldnt have given it more time than 6 months. Have I made up my mind, no. Go back and read my response to support. However, no one has offered me anything new here. I dont take that as people not wanting to help. I take that as, after 3 years time, what else is there to say that hasnt already been said? People on here have expressed what they have done and I have been through all that. What is next?

                                Ten, I think in order to have a successful product, you need to provide the buyer with almost everything that they need in order to get the product to work. In the case of Aneros, I believe that as you stated, something such as that should be stated on the packaging and told to retail buyers. They also need to make clear to retailers that if a user buys the product in a store, they will not be able to return it as they would if bought on the website. Sure, that would scare off a lot of retailers for carrying Aneros products, but not only is that the backlash of a stipulations based warranty, but your job as a the seller should be to be true to the customer.

                                One thought : If it might be needed for a user to view a long wiki, have drawn out threads on a forum, and use audio recordings in order to get the Aneros to work, how many buyers out there that are not aware of this are at a disadvantage from day one? This is why I say that if I have to spend all this time trying to get the thing to work, then the product isnt perfected yet. If the product isnt perfected, I would think the company would still be trying to perfect it, rather than just pushing out new product. There is a difference between a learned skill such as a sport or talent and basic product use. And as I have learned through the development of my own business, the most unique products might be great, but if people cannot grasp how that product works and for it to have consistent results for everyone, chances are people arent ready for that product. I know those that have had large amounts of results would disagree, but I would have been happier if I never heard of Aneros, only to hear about it say 5 years from now when the product is perfected. That way I could have spent all that money, but atleast had a better indication of the product, how it works, and the piece of mind that the concept has been around long enough that the product is as polished as it could be. Its just like technology. I would have never gone out and bought the first line of DVD players. They might have worked, but they were pieces of junk. However, waiting around for the 2nd or 3rd generation of DVD players, you are still paying the high end price, but are finally getting a good product.

                                The reason that products such as these typically dont have warranties are because they are black and white. If you get a vibrator, it is either going to work or not. Vibrators are sucha mainstream thing that everyone knows that you are not going to need to discuss its use and a million other things in order to get started. Aneros is the oposite. Just because a product is in a mainstream industry, you cant assume it is automatically equal to everything else in that industry. Again, I have gone into stores and asked about Aneros. They can only tell me that they have heard mixed results and that they can kind of tell me how the product works. If it was mainstream, their answers would be more confident than that.

                                As for Helixer, message board banning and arguments always confuse me. In all honesty, if you dislike a person or topic, what is so wrong with stating your opinion and moving on or just skipping a thread all together? Message boards were created so that people can share different opinions and perspectives. These days, if you dont agree with the majority you are considered to be breaking the rules, which is why forums now have full proof rules saying things like "we can make up rules at any time we please under any circumstances". In my opinion, someone should not be banned from a forum unless they are spamming or breaching member privacy.

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